For a bit of balance here, @thumb5 wrote:
"I have to say: if the components upstream of the EtherREGEN "still matter...possibly even more so than before" then it seems to me that it has failed in its primary design goal of isolating the effect of those components from the DAC."
The above comments was considered negatively by some. OK, here is a quote from UpTone designer John Swenson:
"The whole purpose of the EtherREGEN is to greatly reduce effects coming from the upstream system. So assuming you have the B port attached to the audio endpoint, don't worry about what is connected to the A side ports. Cables, switches, servers etc should all have very little impact (if any) on the sound quality. So don't worry about them." (there are similar words on UpTone's website)
As far as I can see, Thumb5's comment is perfectly logical with respect to the claims from the designer.
Using further logic, if users are hearing a difference from upstream changes, then those changes are either real or imagined. If real, the EtherRegen does not work as the designer is claiming. Either that I, or there is some kind of unknown mechanism in play here. Not impossible, but indeed this will be a mechanism unknown to the designer of the product, unless the designer's claim for the product is bogus in the first place. OK - Thumb5 has not listened to an EtherRegen, but neither is he disputing anyone's listening impressions, he is just pointing out the logical conclusion based on UpTone's own claims of the benefit of the EtherRegen's "moat" design, relative to users listening reports. The moat is supposed to regenerate the Ethernet signal on the B side, unaffected by electrical and clock phase noise on the upstream A side. In fact, it was the elegance of this concept that persuaded me to buy the EtherRegen rather than one of the alternatives. But who knows what the truth is here? Maybe the EtherRegen eliminates phase noise, but not some other upstream noise or interference, we could speculate endlessly but it would not prove much either way.
As an update from myself, I have tried running my EtherRegen using a clock signal from my Mutec REF10. With this configuration, the system sounds very good indeed. I have not yet tried A/B testing this configuration. In fact, using the REF10 with the EtherRegen is proving a little problematic, the only spare clock cable I have is quite short, this naturally placed the EtherRegen in my rack above the tX-USBultra, directly to the side of the REF10 / MC3+USB. In this location it was getting uncomfortably hot, it was actually painful to touch it. The key thing with 10Mhz reference clock cables is that they work better if they are very short, and if you have a device that needs to be in free air outside of the rack for cooling, a short cable is problematic. Anyway, after a bit of creative reorganisation, the EtherRegen is now in "free air" outside of the rack, in front of the Mutec REF10, and resting on my sPS-500. The sPS-500 is not the greatest PSU in the world, but it does run stone cold, so it now adds a little extra benefit as a cool stand for the EhterRegen, perhaps assisting with cooling a little. Appearance wise this does not look too bad to me, (I am sure some would find it horrific) but my system is now looking less and less like domestic audio equipment, and more like a Heath Robinson science experiment. What I am happy about is that I have retained the short clock cable to the REF10, and the EtherRegen has now reverted to a more comfortable temperature. As an aside, this set up also gives very easy access to the EtherRegen. This is bad news in terms of it being potentially being clobbered by a vacuum cleaner, but I have just tried taking the Ethernet cable from the sMS-200Ultra from the B side to the A side of the EtherRegen, if you are slick, this can be done without stopping the music. This would make a good A/B test I think, just try one side of the moat versus the other. I could also try switching between the REF10 and the internal clock, this too would be an easy test. So many things to try.
Over the holiday period I have had plenty of time for the simple pleasure of listening to music. As I mentioned in my own system thread I came to the conclusion that the effect of the EtherRegen was quite small. With some long term listening, nothing has really changed that view, except to say it seems to be a very welcome and positive small change. There are those odd things in the sound that can irritate with digital reproduction, that slight harshness in the higher frequencies, sounds that are not fully resolved. The impression I get is that somehow the EtherRegen adds a little bit of polish, and turns that slight harshness into nice resolved sounds. Curiously, it is snare drums that are getting my attention most in terms of change, with the sound moving from an artificial HF "tish" sound, to actually sounding like the sound of a snare. It is like transient staccato sounds are now being resolved rather that smeared digitally. (if you can smear something digitally, but that is how it sounds to me) As I said, it is a small change, at the margins of what might be real or imagined, but it is a very positive small change to my ears, I can say I have been enjoying the music enormously with the EtherRegen in play. Sometimes those small changes can make a big change to the enjoyment of music. It is a bit like a luxury car that becomes very annoying because of a tiny rattle or noise, eliminate the tiny rattle, the car moves from being irritating to enjoyable.
I guess in summary I can say the direction my wallet is taking me, I sent my AQVOX switch back for refund, the EtherRegen is a keeper.
I wonder if someone will set up a decent blind testing session in 2020?
"I have to say: if the components upstream of the EtherREGEN "still matter...possibly even more so than before" then it seems to me that it has failed in its primary design goal of isolating the effect of those components from the DAC."
The above comments was considered negatively by some. OK, here is a quote from UpTone designer John Swenson:
"The whole purpose of the EtherREGEN is to greatly reduce effects coming from the upstream system. So assuming you have the B port attached to the audio endpoint, don't worry about what is connected to the A side ports. Cables, switches, servers etc should all have very little impact (if any) on the sound quality. So don't worry about them." (there are similar words on UpTone's website)
As far as I can see, Thumb5's comment is perfectly logical with respect to the claims from the designer.
Using further logic, if users are hearing a difference from upstream changes, then those changes are either real or imagined. If real, the EtherRegen does not work as the designer is claiming. Either that I, or there is some kind of unknown mechanism in play here. Not impossible, but indeed this will be a mechanism unknown to the designer of the product, unless the designer's claim for the product is bogus in the first place. OK - Thumb5 has not listened to an EtherRegen, but neither is he disputing anyone's listening impressions, he is just pointing out the logical conclusion based on UpTone's own claims of the benefit of the EtherRegen's "moat" design, relative to users listening reports. The moat is supposed to regenerate the Ethernet signal on the B side, unaffected by electrical and clock phase noise on the upstream A side. In fact, it was the elegance of this concept that persuaded me to buy the EtherRegen rather than one of the alternatives. But who knows what the truth is here? Maybe the EtherRegen eliminates phase noise, but not some other upstream noise or interference, we could speculate endlessly but it would not prove much either way.
As an update from myself, I have tried running my EtherRegen using a clock signal from my Mutec REF10. With this configuration, the system sounds very good indeed. I have not yet tried A/B testing this configuration. In fact, using the REF10 with the EtherRegen is proving a little problematic, the only spare clock cable I have is quite short, this naturally placed the EtherRegen in my rack above the tX-USBultra, directly to the side of the REF10 / MC3+USB. In this location it was getting uncomfortably hot, it was actually painful to touch it. The key thing with 10Mhz reference clock cables is that they work better if they are very short, and if you have a device that needs to be in free air outside of the rack for cooling, a short cable is problematic. Anyway, after a bit of creative reorganisation, the EtherRegen is now in "free air" outside of the rack, in front of the Mutec REF10, and resting on my sPS-500. The sPS-500 is not the greatest PSU in the world, but it does run stone cold, so it now adds a little extra benefit as a cool stand for the EhterRegen, perhaps assisting with cooling a little. Appearance wise this does not look too bad to me, (I am sure some would find it horrific) but my system is now looking less and less like domestic audio equipment, and more like a Heath Robinson science experiment. What I am happy about is that I have retained the short clock cable to the REF10, and the EtherRegen has now reverted to a more comfortable temperature. As an aside, this set up also gives very easy access to the EtherRegen. This is bad news in terms of it being potentially being clobbered by a vacuum cleaner, but I have just tried taking the Ethernet cable from the sMS-200Ultra from the B side to the A side of the EtherRegen, if you are slick, this can be done without stopping the music. This would make a good A/B test I think, just try one side of the moat versus the other. I could also try switching between the REF10 and the internal clock, this too would be an easy test. So many things to try.
Over the holiday period I have had plenty of time for the simple pleasure of listening to music. As I mentioned in my own system thread I came to the conclusion that the effect of the EtherRegen was quite small. With some long term listening, nothing has really changed that view, except to say it seems to be a very welcome and positive small change. There are those odd things in the sound that can irritate with digital reproduction, that slight harshness in the higher frequencies, sounds that are not fully resolved. The impression I get is that somehow the EtherRegen adds a little bit of polish, and turns that slight harshness into nice resolved sounds. Curiously, it is snare drums that are getting my attention most in terms of change, with the sound moving from an artificial HF "tish" sound, to actually sounding like the sound of a snare. It is like transient staccato sounds are now being resolved rather that smeared digitally. (if you can smear something digitally, but that is how it sounds to me) As I said, it is a small change, at the margins of what might be real or imagined, but it is a very positive small change to my ears, I can say I have been enjoying the music enormously with the EtherRegen in play. Sometimes those small changes can make a big change to the enjoyment of music. It is a bit like a luxury car that becomes very annoying because of a tiny rattle or noise, eliminate the tiny rattle, the car moves from being irritating to enjoyable.
I guess in summary I can say the direction my wallet is taking me, I sent my AQVOX switch back for refund, the EtherRegen is a keeper.
I wonder if someone will set up a decent blind testing session in 2020?
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
