"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation

[baconbrain]

I have no problem with your scepticism and I would like to see Uptone provide some form of supporting evidence for several reasons, one of which is that if they provided evidence then we'd have a lot clearer idea of what and how to conduct tests to confirm or dismiss their claims.

I just wish that the scepticism that is directed towards Uptone was also directed towards the ASR review and measurements. Any scientist will tell you that you cannot prove that there is no difference between 2 things by simply running tests that fail to show a difference but that's what ASR is claiming to have done. For those with short memories, a classic example of the risks inherent in doing that can be found back in the early 70's when some people were claiming to be able to hear a difference between amplifiers which delivered the same THD measurements on test and others claimed that there could be no audible difference if there was no measured difference. The problem was that the tests were all measuring the wrong thing, they were measuring THD as a percentage of the signal and what needed to be measured was the levels of each harmonic in the distortion. 2 amplifiers with the same measured percentage THD could have quite different levels of each harmonic in the distortion pattern and the differences in the distortion pattern are audible. What ASR has given us is comparisons of a couple of measurements of 2 switches, the EtherRegen and an unnamed switch. We have no idea whether there are measurable differences if other tests are used and we also have no idea whether, if the right tests were used, all switches would measurer similarly. Perhaps another switch would have produced different results to the unnamed switch. We have no way of knowing. The simple fact is that at present we have no idea whether the ASR tests were (a) the right tests to reveal any differences and some hard data from Uptone would help a lot on that point and (b) whether the switch the EtherREGEN was compared to actually has similar performance to the EtherREGEN and whether it is possible that some/many other switches would deliver different results on the tests which were conducted. I'm willing to accept ASR's results as honestly and accurate ly reporting what was measured but those results as they stand are incapable of actually establishing that the EtherREGEN doesn't do what Uptone claim.

What I think would give us reasonably compelling evidence that Uptone's claims are unfounded would be for Uptone to provide measurements which they claim show a difference, along with details of how those measurements were made and why those measurements are the relevant measurements and for several testers to replicate the Uptone test procedure and fail to find the differences that Uptone report, along with the results of a couple of rigorously designed and conducted listening tests which failed to show that listeners can reliably distinguish between the EtherREGEN and several other common ethernet switches.  Those listening tests are not going to be easy to design and conduct, should have a reasonable number of subects, and would take quite a bit of time to conduct. I would love to see test results from Uptone that others could attempt to replicate because that's a key part of the scientific method when it comes to proving things, and I would equally love to see the results of some genuinely professional quality listening tests. So far we have neither and it doesn't matter whether you believe Uptone or ASR, anyone who believes the other can validly throw the same criticisms at your position as you can throw at theirs. Currently no side has an advantage in this argument when it comes to providing compelling proof of their particular claims.

As I've said before, I have an EtherREGEN on order and should be getting it next month so I "have skin in the game" as the saying goes. I think people should not accept Uptone's claims uncritically but on the other hand they should also not accept ASR's tests and claims uncritically. There is currently no evidence for or against Uptone's cllaims that should not be treated with an equal degree of scepticism.

David,

Agree. I have also made a New Year’s Resolution to stop beating the Uptone dead horse and move on to other „projects“ in 2020. 

Happy New Year