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Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll.
#18
(11-Jul-2019, 16:01)RebelMan Wrote: ...
I see your point, but how do you really know what it is you are hearing (or not)?  What is your frame of reference?  Is it your memory?  The mind can play tricks on you.  Without a common frame of reference how can one truthfully say one thing sounds better than another?  Let's say you found the Roon Nucleus to sound better than the Mac mini.  Now let's say I found the Mac mini to sound better than the Roon Nucleus.  Which is it?

That's exactly the problem with a subjective experience.  I agree that all of those questions are valid but I am not sure there is a way to answer any of them in a meaningful or objective way.  Experiences of the same stimulus can vary with time, frame of mind, etc. so there is no well-defined "which is it?" -- "it" can always change.  I think one has to be happy with that realisation and simply live with it.

(11-Jul-2019, 16:01)RebelMan Wrote: If all a person has to go by is just the opinions of others then how is that really helpful?  Since people's opinions are influenced by their own biases there is no way to know for sure what the truth is.  Don't you want to know the truth?  Have you ever been deceived by deceptive marketing?  How did it make you feel to learn the truth about it later on?

Well, it depends very much what you mean by "the truth".  How are you defining that?  It sounds like you are talking about something you feel should be objective, that everyone would agree on.  That is never going to happen when we're discussing a subjective experience as everyone in effect has their own private version of the truth (as they hear it).

(11-Jul-2019, 16:01)RebelMan Wrote: Taking measurements establishes a common frame of reference that is free of any bias.  If a claim is made that component A sounds better than component B but the measurements cannot support such a claim then you know that it cannot be true.

No, I don't think that's a valid conclusion, since there are many things other than measurements that might affect what any individual perceives as "better".  Some may be relevant to some people but not others.  So A may say "X is better than Y" and B may say "no, it's not" -- both are equally valid (true) since they are just expressing personal preference about their subjective experience of the sound.

It's quite well known that some people prefer the sound of valve amplifiers, i.e. for those people they sound better, although they usually don't measure as well as solid-state amplifiers.  But (in my view) you can't tell people they are "wrong", because subjectively they prefer the sound -- which is precisely what we mean when we say something "sounds better", isn't it?

Of course you can still say: "this (valve) amplifier is technically inferior to that (solid-state) amplifier because it has higher distortion", which you can support objectively by measurement, and no-one could argue with that.  In that sense it establishes a common frame of reference, just as you said, but one that may or may not have any bearing on the subjective experience.

(11-Jul-2019, 16:01)RebelMan Wrote: Subjective experiences should lead one to personal preferences not absolutism.  When someone says component A sounds better than competent B what they are really implying is that component A is better than component B which is a problem.  If a person were to say they prefer component A to component B then that is when the statement becomes an unarguably valid fact.  However, keep in mind too that having a preference does not necessarily imply correctness.

When people say "sounds better" one should read it as "sounds better, to me" since they can't possibly have any experience of how it sounds to anyone but themselves.  That aside, this is exactly the point I was making.  It seems we agree Smile
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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Messages In This Thread
Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by BoyScout - 06-Jul-2019, 19:51
Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by ruivilar - 06-Jul-2019, 23:14
RE: Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by Stino - 10-Jul-2019, 09:42
RE: Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by Stino - 11-Jul-2019, 16:48
RE: Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by Pim - 10-Jul-2019, 11:04
RE: Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by thumb5 - 11-Jul-2019, 13:28
RE: Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by thumb5 - 11-Jul-2019, 16:30
RE: Mac Mini vs Innuos Mini MK ll. - by thumb5 - 11-Jul-2019, 16:31

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