New 8.0 firmware

[Jean-Marie]

Who said they have made any changes to the sound?

I am quite enjoying watching all the posts about which sounds best and waiting for an announcement that all the changes are as I suspect functional only !!!!!

I think that for anyone using SAM, the fact that the version of SAM is different between 7.x and 8 as well as the SAM parameters means that the signal processing is different and therefore SQ differences perceived in one direction or the other are not necessarily illusions.

This being said, our ears combined with out brain are very tricky measurement and comparison tools.

Jean-Marie

[Confused]

Who said they have made any changes to the sound?

I am quite enjoying watching all the posts about which sounds best and waiting for an announcement that all the changes are as I suspect functional only !!!!!

Are you stating that you cannot hear a difference?  Either way, I suspect that it may be a while before we get any kind of an announcement from Devialet.

[PhilP]

Who said they have made any changes to the sound?

I am quite enjoying watching all the posts about which sounds best and waiting for an announcement that all the changes are as I suspect functional only !!!!!

I heard very clear differences between 7.1.1 and 7.1.3 and in many ways preferred the latter.  I used 7.1.3 for a few days before trying 8.0 and whilst finding the two similar in sound there was something about 8.0 that I really disliked so I reverted back to 7.1.3. Of course I could be imaging this but given that there have been many posts describing the same sort of differences that I heard then I think that's unlikely.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Antoine's suggestion is correct i.e. that the differences between 7.1.3 and 8.0 are down to the changes in functionality indeed several have reported that with DPM, ICM off the two sound basically the same.  I haven't tried it.

I don't know the explanation for the differences in sound between 7.1.1 and 7.1.3/8.0 but Devialet made changes in the DSP file - who knows what they are.

[Triggrhappy01]

(Cross post from "Firmware 8.0 thread)

I took some REW measurements of 7.1.1, 7.1.3b and 8.0.0.  With SAM defeated, and ICM defeated in 8.0.0, there is no significant difference between the three.  Any variation can be attributed to measurement error.




However, in 8.0.0, ICM (Intelligent Cinema Mode) is defaulted to ON and you are most likely hearing its effects as shown below when you load 8.0.0 and a config file created under the "new" Configurator.



As far as I can tell, there is no way to defeat ICM from the configurator - meaning the only way to turn it off is to map the "ICM on/off" function to a remote button and then manually defeat it.  It seems to be a smooth, subtle downward tilt toward the high frequencies, approx. 1dB down at 1 KHz, 2dB down at 10 KHz, and 3dB down at 20 KHz according to the graphs.  The hinge point appears to be around 100-150 Hz.  Note that ICM seems to adjusted dynamically depending on volume, and this represents only a single volume setting.


(Expert 200 was at level of -18 for all measurements.  KEF LS50s are on loan and it's unknown if they are fully broken in.  UMIK and latest REW version for OS X.  Except for the "ICM on/off" remote control mapping, the same config file was used for all FW versions - downloaded 5/17 using the new Configurator.  The overall measurement level is low but all measurements were made under the same conditions.  FW version measurements taken approx. 30min apart.  DPM was on during all 8.0.0 measurements.  Room is 12x20 and reflective.  Speakers are along the long wall, microphone approx. 8ft from each speaker.)

I was wrong about ICM being on by default, and apologize for misstating as such in my original post.  Additional measurements confirm that ICM is defaulted to OFF until you turn it on.  And, it turns out that - contrary to my statement - the only way to turn it ON is to assign the ICM on/off function to the remote and manually activate it.  You won't hear ICM unless you really mean to.  It was an error on my part that led to my claim to the contrary.

You know how SAM is always default=on whenever you load an enabled config file (even if it was off before loading the new config)?  The fault in my logic was assuming that ICM worked in this same way.  Unlike SAM, ICM remembers its last state no matter how many new config files you load.  I had left ICM on during the course of my original measurements.  Therefore, I saw ICM's tilted-down effect every time I loaded a different config file, and believed that ICM was defaulted to on whenever you loaded a config.  I was wrong, sorry.

[Triggrhappy01]

Since I was experimenting, I took some new measurements with ICM on and off, and at different volume levels.  I think ICM's processing is too complex to be revealed by simple frequency sweeps.



Note, the -6dB measurement was clipping pretty bad according to REW.  ICM's audible effect on real-world content/movie soundtracks seems greater than the graph suggests.  Dialog does seem noticeably enhanced with ICM on and under certain conditions, but nothing in the graph seems to suggest how.  I'm not sure how this could be visually represented.

[busaganashi]

I didn't like V8 as although the sound was open and detailed there was too much treble in my system which emphasised hiss on older recordings, added a false ambience and also gave an unnatural 'edge' to female vocals - something which I have previously worked hard to get rid of.  I'm not sure about the bass either.  Overall I found the system to be irritating to listen to.

I think that its unfortunate that Devialet sometimes change the sound balance when introducing new firmware.  Its great that they continue to improve SQ but a lot of us spend time tweaking our systems to get the balance we want so its annoying when Devialet make a change but don't even tell us that they have. 

Its interesting how differently we all hear, and what effects firmware changes have depending on system.  I feel exactly as you about v8 - to me the Devialet with v8 has gone back more towards my former Naim amp with much more mid emphasis and more 'aggressive' sound.  Not as far, but in the direction.  Yet many find it much better in their setups so I think we may well be in trouble!

If the sound presentation can change so radically (in relative terms and to my ears) with each update, then you haven't really bought into a 'Devialet sound' in my opinion, you've got a box that is going to sound however Devialet feel at the time….

Actually, I think it would be nice if Devialet could provide us with different sounds, e.g. 1950's tube amp, Naim, Linn, standard Devialet v8, v 7.1.3, etc. Seems like they can do that with the phono stage.

[MusicFirst]

I didn't like V8 as although the sound was open and detailed there was too much treble in my system which emphasised hiss on older recordings, added a false ambience and also gave an unnatural 'edge' to female vocals - something which I have previously worked hard to get rid of.  I'm not sure about the bass either.  Overall I found the system to be irritating to listen to.

I think that its unfortunate that Devialet sometimes change the sound balance when introducing new firmware.  Its great that they continue to improve SQ but a lot of us spend time tweaking our systems to get the balance we want so its annoying when Devialet make a change but don't even tell us that they have. 

Its interesting how differently we all hear, and what effects firmware changes have depending on system.  I feel exactly as you about v8 - to me the Devialet with v8 has gone back more towards my former Naim amp with much more mid emphasis and more 'aggressive' sound.  Not as far, but in the direction.  Yet many find it much better in their setups so I think we may well be in trouble!

If the sound presentation can change so radically (in relative terms and to my ears) with each update, then you haven't really bought into a 'Devialet sound' in my opinion, you've got a box that is going to sound however Devialet feel at the time….

Actually, I think it would be nice if Devialet could provide us with different sounds, e.g. 1950's tube amp, Naim, Linn, standard Devialet v8, v 7.1.3, etc. Seems like they can do that with the phono stage.

I REALLY like this idea!  add a classic SE tube sound like a Kondo Ongaku and I'll have SD cards lined up around my listening chair!  It would be like when Bob Carver modified the output of his own little "T" class A/B amplifier to sound like the class A Levinson ML-2 for a Stereophile panel back in the 80's

[Damon]

Actually, I think it would be nice if Devialet could provide us with different sounds, e.g. 1950's tube amp, Naim, Linn, standard Devialet v8, v 7.1.3, etc. Seems like they can do that with the phono stage.

First, welcome to the forum. I don't know if your are an owner or a curious visitor, but you seem to have some knowledge of the product.

But... the idea of adding an amplifier 'modelling' mode is the last feature the amp needs. The  amp/ preamp/ DAC should be taking the input signal, amplifying it/ controlling it/ converting it in the most correct, unedited way possible. Adding tonal color is exactly what the Devialet does not do, nor should it.

Plug your guitar into a pedal board and fuss with the sounds; all well and good. I have a pedal on my bass that adds some effects like this. Reverb, delay, 'tube distortion' at the source is one thing; adding it in the reproduction chain is another thing, and it is wrong. I had Naim gear; in comparison to the Devialet it is noisy with hum, the bass is tubby and less extended, there is a level of background hash, and it is a bit fuzzy. Why would anyone want to add any of these characteristics? Yes, all sorts of effects could be added digitally, but they would be  fake, and contrary to the design ethos and strength of the product.

..... OK, I'm off topic- sorry. I don't even have V 8.0 installed. Just hit a nerve.... I'll just take a chair and sit in the back of the room. Who wants a pretzel?

[MusicFirst]

Actually, I think it would be nice if Devialet could provide us with different sounds, e.g. 1950's tube amp, Naim, Linn, standard Devialet v8, v 7.1.3, etc. Seems like they can do that with the phono stage.

First, welcome to the forum. I don't know if your are an owner or a curious visitor, but you seem to have some knowledge of the product.

But... the idea of adding an amplifier 'modelling' mode is the last feature the amp needs. The  amp/ preamp/ DAC should be taking the input signal, amplifying it/ controlling it/ converting it in the most correct, unedited way possible. Adding tonal color is exactly what the Devialet does not do, nor should it.

Plug your guitar into a pedal board and fuss with the sounds; all well and good. I have a pedal on my bass that adds some effects like this. Reverb, delay, 'tube distortion' at the source is one thing; adding it in the reproduction chain is another thing, and it is wrong. I had Naim gear; in comparison to the Devialet it is noisy with hum, the bass is tubby and less extended, there is a level of background hash, and it is a bit fuzzy. Why would anyone want to add any of these characteristics? Yes, all sorts of effects could be added digitally, but they would be  fake, and contrary to the design ethos and strength of the product.

..... OK, I'm off topic- sorry. I don't even have V 8.0 installed. Just hit a nerve.... I'll just take a chair and sit in the back of the room. Who wants a pretzel?

I'll bring the beer     I don't think that offering different voicings in the configurator, along with a default would compromise any purist who values the neutrality of the Devs above all.  I for one can appreciate both.  An option like this may even open up more sales.  Another pretzel please  

[MusicFirst]

Does anyone know if Devialet has a location with all the previous firmware releases?
Could someone please provide a link?

Thanks

Kerry