Stereo Phantoms without Dialog possible?

[Johnnydev]

Dosen´t it defeat the point of creating an amazing compact system to have a dialog box and cables?

No! It is just fine that you can hide the dialog ( with a good ethernet cable etc.) and run the phantoms only with the power cable 

Bij me it runs perfect

[EvPa]

You can actually get stereo sound out of two Phantoms without a Dialog... but a Dialog is still required at some point.

Here's how you can do it:
1. connect a source to one of the Phantoms via an optical cable
2. setup everything with Ethernet cables (this is where you will need the Dialog)
3. listen to your optical source (set the Phantoms' volume now)
4. unplug the Dialog

The Phantoms will continue playing fine and will "wake up" when the optical cable sends a signal.
You will not be able to control the volume as Spark won't work after unplugging the Dialogue (I do not know if the remote might help with this, I do not own one).

[hydr]

From a technical standpoint I´m struggling to see what exactly the Dialog does, it appears to me it´s just a wifi router/media center, and that everything it does could easily been handled by a computer if Devialet allowed it.

Maybe the reason there is a Dialog is for Devialet is buffering/range/cpu/memory resources, like a hardware priority QoS solution for guaranteeing resources and range. That way they limits all the possible things that can go wrong with a inferior PC or Wifi router as these music files are quite large and require great bandwidth and processing power to go through.

Thanks to all these posts, it´s obvious I need to go with Dialog + 2 Phantoms.

I tried downloading Spark but without Phantom I can´t initiate it properly. So I guess my best bet for SQ,ease of use is just to connect ToS from my Mac to Dialog, which would allow me to play through iTunes or any other way I want. And for those special occasions when the kids are out of the house, open Spark to play 24/96 for extra enjoyment?

Thanks again for all these great answers! If everything goes as planned I´ll very soon be a happy owner of a Phantom setup. :-)

[ogs]

You can actually get stereo sound out of two Phantoms without a Dialog... but a Dialog is still required at  some point.

Here's how you can do it:
1. connect a source to one of the Phantoms via an optical cable
2. setup everything with Ethernet cables (this is where you will need the Dialog)
3. listen to your optical source (set the Phantoms' volume now)
4. unplug the Dialog

The Phantoms will continue playing fine and will "wake up" when the optical cable sends a signal.
You will not be able to control the volume as Spark won't work after unplugging the Dialogue (I do not know if the remote might help with this, I do not own one).

Which networking is necessary between the Phantoms for this to work? Is PLC good enough for 24/192 or is ethernet required? (I am trying to avoid wifi) Are you saying that the L R channel splitting takes place in the Phantom where optical is connected? Not in Dialog?
Sorry for all the questions!

[fgueho]

You can actually get stereo sound out of two Phantoms without a Dialog... but a Dialog is still required at  some point.

Is it true stereo ? Or is it just two mono sources ?

[EvPa]

Which networking is necessary between the Phantoms for this to work? Is PLC good enough for 24/192 or is ethernet required? (I am trying to avoid wifi) Are you saying that the L R channel splitting takes place in the Phantom where optical is connected? Not in Dialog?
Sorry for all the questions!

Well, it definitely works with the Phantoms connected with Ethernet cables; I tried it once without Ethernet and the second Phantom (the one not connected to the source) stopped playing after a while.

Is it true stereo ? Or is it just two mono sources ?

This is something that I did not really check but it sounded like stereo.


By the way, this discovery happened after the Dialog was accidentally unplugged from the mains.

[yesgrey]

Well, but if you needed Dialog to setup the stereo system then it doesn't count, because without a Dialog you could not set it up like that, unless you have a friend from whom you could borrow one to setup/re-setup your system whenever something goes wrong...

However, there is a way it might work... If you use different optical cables connected to the two phantom, and then feed them only the left channel on one and the right channel to the other one, it might work, even without Dialog. However, I don't know if you would be able to control the sound over Spark... I have a professional sound card where I could re-route the different channels, but unfortunately it only has one SPDIF output, so, I cannot test it...

[ogs]

Well, it definitely works with the Phantoms connected with Ethernet cables; I tried it once without Ethernet and the second Phantom (the one not connected to the source) stopped playing after a while.


By the way, this discovery happened after the Dialog was accidentally unplugged from the mains.

Thanks. Good to know. I will try Phantoms soon so I am collecting as much knowledge as possible. Ideally I'd like to avoid Dialog, but that seems impossible at the moment. The problem is how to split L and R. Using two Phantoms as 'Solo' (i.e. mono as L+R is summed) would require splitting SPDIF L & R at the source and running separate optical cables to each Phantom. Splitting SPDIF left and right cannels like this is NOT straight forward...
If Spark/Dialog can define L and R Phantoms and it stays that way with Spark/Dialog disconnecterd I am getting closer.

[yesgrey]

Ideally I'd like to avoid Dialog, but that seems impossible at the moment.

What do you mean? Not buying it at all, or buying it and have it disconnected after setting everything up?

[ogs]

Well, but if you needed Dialog to setup the stereo system then it doesn't count, because without a Dialog you could not set it up like that, unless you have a friend from whom you could borrow one to setup/re-setup your system whenever something goes wrong...

However, there is a way it might work... If you use different optical cables connected to the two phantom, and then feed them only the left channel on one and the right channel to the other one, it might work, even without Dialog. However, I don't know if you would be able to control the sound over Spark...  I have a professional sound card where I could re-route the different channels, but unfortunately it only has one SPDIF output, so, I cannot test it...

This is exactly how I would prefer to do it. The trouble is to find a device with two Toslink outputs where one can route L and R. I have contacted Vincent at TotalDAC about this. He has promised to look at the code in the FPGA of his d1 reclocker. He might be able to route the channels to separate Toslink outputs (which he will also have to add) for use with Phantoms.
The d1 has volume control, input selection, phase invert etc. Main problem of course is that a special build of the TotalDAC d1 reclocker will be quite expensive.