Stereo Phantoms without Dialog possible?

[ogs]

Ideally I'd like to avoid Dialog, but that seems impossible at the moment.

What do you mean? Not buying it at all, or buying it and have it disconnected after setting everything up?

I'd probably buy a Dialog, but not use it much if I can get the direct link to work. Depends on what sounds best I guess.

[yesgrey]

If you'd buy a Dialog then I guess it's pointless not using it... There is one potential disadvantage with the solution you described (but only if Spark and Devialet are doing it right). Without using Spark your only option would be using a digital volume, and in that case you end up loosing some signal resolution. I think (and hope) Spark controls the volume by changing the gain on the amplifiers inside Phantom after the D/A conversion, hence always using the full resolution of the digital signal applied to the DAC.

What I would like to have would be a solution where the Dialog and even the optical input would not be required! For example, when using the ethernet ports in the Phantoms, they could simply use Spark to send the audio data to each Phantom, which, considering it's a Gbit port would have enough bandwidth, and then the only thing that we would need would be a switch/router to connect the Phantoms to the computer. Each Phantom would have its own IP address, so, Spark could perfectly know which one is the left and which one is the right. I'm not a network expert, but I think technically this would be completely possible. They could leave Dialog only for people that would prefer to use Phantoms in wireless mode, which, personally, I could perfectly live without... an ethernet cable is not that obtrusive. This probably would even be a better solution for controlling a full set of 24 Phantoms as they are always claiming...

[patekswiss]

Why a messy solution? It is great how it is now!

I think the Dialog is there because Devialet had its sights set higher than a mere stereo pair -- they wanted to make the archetypal "speaker in every room" house-wide sound system that could be controlled from a single mobile phone.

But in a stereo setup, the speakers are likely to be close enough such that they can communicate directly.

This is the design that JBL chose for their Xtreme. And for stereo, it is simpler and more straight forward than the Devialet implementation. You just plop down the two Xtremes, power them up, hit the "link" button on each of them, establish  your bluetooth connection to one of them and you're done. The app lets you choose between stereo pair operation and "party mode" (two speakers pumping out the same content).

That's $600 MSRP for a stereo pair that's simpler to operate. Plus rechargeable batteries with really fine battery life. They don't get as loud as the Phantoms, for sure, but for outdoors or the beach? Awesome.

But it does suggest that Devialet could do stereo Phantoms in a slightly less fiddly way if they were willing to sacrifice the expandability. My guess is that a software upgrade to do this is conceivable.

[hydr]

Woohoo. Happy as an egg. Just unpacked my first two Phantom Silvers and a Dialog. It sounds even better at home. :-)

Thanks for all the helpful answers in this thread. Very happy right now. :-)

[ogs]

If you'd buy a Dialog then I guess it's pointless not using it... There is one potential disadvantage with the solution you described (but only if Spark and Devialet are doing it right). Without using Spark your only option would be using a digital volume, and in that case you end up loosing some signal resolution. I think (and hope) Spark controls the volume by changing the gain on the amplifiers inside Phantom after the D/A conversion, hence always using the full resolution of the digital signal applied to the DAC.

I'm afraid the volume control is digital. It is in my 250. Spark, Dialog and Phantom too I believe. The only volume control that fits your description is the one used in Tact/Lyngdorf amps where the power supply rails where adjusted to control loudness. But even here digital control is used for (the upper) part of the range.

[ogs]

Woohoo. Happy as an egg. Just unpacked my first two Phantom Silvers and a Dialog. It sounds even better at home. :-)

Thanks for all the helpful answers in this thread. Very happy right now. :-)

Congrats! Hope you'll be happy for a long time   Phantom Silvers are high on my list. Even my wife would love to have a pair in our living room!

[yesgrey]

I'm afraid the volume control is digital. It is in my 250. Spark, Dialog and Phantom too I believe. The only volume control that fits your description is the one used in Tact/Lyngdorf amps where the power supply rails where adjusted to control loudness. But even here digital control is used for (the upper) part of the range.

Ok, then how are they doing it? If they are doing something as basic as 24bits (the full resolution) corresponding to max volume, then, since we never play them at max volume, we never listen to a full resolution signal? It sounds too bad to be true, I guess... Anyone knows how it's done?

[ogs]

I'm afraid the volume control is digital. It is in my 250. Spark, Dialog and Phantom too I believe. The only volume control that fits your description is the one used in Tact/Lyngdorf amps where the power supply rails where adjusted to control loudness. But even here digital control is used for (the upper) part of the range.

Ok, then how are they doing it? If they are doing something as basic as 24bits (the full resolution)  corresponding to max volume, then, since we never play them at max volume, we never listen to a full resolution signal? It sounds too bad to be true, I guess... Anyone knows how it's done?

There is a very nice article on the subject here: www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/12/kih-3-can-digital-volume-controls-keep-it-honest/. I do not think 24bits is used for serious equipment. Totaldac states 69bit resolution for its digital attenuator. 64bits is often used elsewhere. I've noticed that Devialet mentions 40bits resolution for their DSP. Maybe this also indcate what they use for the volume control.
I agree with you that this is a problematic aerea.

[RobLnd]

Dosen´t it defeat the point of creating an amazing compact system to have a dialog box and cables?

No! It is just fine that you can hide the dialog ( with a good ethernet cable etc.) and run the phantoms only with the power cable 

Bij me it runs perfect

Careful where you hide the Dialog! It runs very, very, very and extremely hot...

[hydr]

Congrats! Hope you'll be happy for a long time   Phantom Silvers are high on my list. Even my wife would love to have a pair in our living room!

I had lag and stuttering, so I re-arrange the whole living room just so I could have the same power outlet + wifirouter + optical cable on the same location. Only to forget to connect the optical cable, making me realise it was possible all along with just ethernet/power to the dialog.. Hehe, I could have saved a couple of hours re-arranging my whole living room and just added the Dialog close to the router and been done with it.

Learning by the minute... No stuttering or lag now, sound excellent! Love it!