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140 vs 220 pro
#1
Hello  Smile
I have a 140 pro and audiovector sr1 arrete speakers.
Although i enjoy the sound  i sometimes feel the sound is a little too thin,  not the bass, but the midrange a little thin sounding.  Do you think upgrading to 220 pro or even 440 pro could bring midrange improvement? 
Have anyone compared 140 to 220 pro? 
Thanks in advance  Big Grin
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#2
I've got a 140 and I don't find the midrange on the thin side, either with my current Focal Sopra 2s or my previous Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs.

Could it be that the mids are sounding thin because the bass sounds excessive? Have you got a room mode problem boosting the bass at some frequencies and/or are you using SAM with a high % setting. Perhaps moving the speakers out a bit more from the walls if they're close to the walls, or turning SAM down a bit if you're using SAM, might improve things a bit. I'm not certain that upgrading to a 220 is going to change the midrange all that much but I do think there are things you could possibly do with setup that may change the tonal balance more to your liking.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#3
(14-Jan-2020, 09:53)Sorensen Wrote: Hello  Smile
I have a 140 pro and audiovector sr1 arrete speakers.
Although i enjoy the sound  i sometimes feel the sound is a little too thin,  not the bass, but the midrange a little thin sounding.  Do you think upgrading to 220 pro or even 440 pro could bring midrange improvement? 
Have anyone compared 140 to 220 pro? 
Thanks in advance  Big Grin


I own a 140 Pro, and it was a real stretch at the time, but no regrets, not one.  I may be bringing a 250 into the stable in the coming months.  Are you running the SAM profile?  Have you toyed with the subsonic filter?  I don't know what I don't know, but I've toyed with some other gear and a few pairs of speakers before finding a fit that I like.  Right now, I'm running the Evoke 10, matching stands on GAIA IIIs.  SAM was non-negotiable with speaker choice, but I fell in love with the Evoke 10 during a demo in Denver.  Unbelievable value. 

To really be able to answer your question, forgive me if I missed it, but can you describe the entire system?  Cables specifically.  The Expert Pro, I've found, running on the US grid, rewards a quality outlet install, almost more than replacement mains, and that copper seems to be king throughout the entire loom.  I run Wireworld for Ethernet throughout my whole home network, mostly Starlight, and preferred the sound of the all-copper Chroma 8 for the final connection.  I thought I just wasn't a fan of USB, but their Chroma 8 USB has me running my Surface Pro X directly to my 140 now versus navigating the network topology, and even pulling over WiFi, I enjoy it.

It shouldn't take a $12,000 loom to make you love your speakers.  But perhaps even a more modest Audience Ohno III, as it doesn't appear that your speakers are particularly hard to drive, might let that midrange through.  Try a few things.  I picked up a 7ft Anticables Reference mains on a whim (under 400 USD), and besides hoping the Shunyata adapter will allow me to fit the cover back on again without reducing the fantastic openness that cable introduced, I am eager to see how it sounds in a month.  The Shunyata Delta EF is an excellent choice as well, but I've heard it can get pricey depending on your region.  Play around with the loom.  The 140 has more than enough grunt in my opinion, when equipped to deliver it properly.
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#4
I also suggest first experiment with changing cables, particularly the power cable, or even the power outlet. This can change the tone of the sound quite dramatically.

Also the way your components are connected the power grid can affect the tone and openness. Probably because of ground noise, or ground loop noise, if you have multiple devices inter-connected together. I try to minimize interconnect cables (best if none), especially if the other component has a grounded power connection.
Devialet 1000 Pro CI - AQ Diamond RCA-RCA-XLR  /  PC - ifi USB iDefender - Uptone LPS 1.2 + ISO Regen - Singxer SU-6 - AQ Carbon XLR
PSB Imagine T3  Anticables L3.1 speaker cables  /  PliXir Elementa balanced AC power  /  ifi AC iPurifier
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#5
I'm with @David A on this. Play with SAM settings and speaker placement before you buy anything else. Set them up a bit closer to each other and try different distances from the wall. If you don't get what you want, in your case, I would look at replacing my speakers rather than upgrading to 220 Pro. The extra power the 200 gives you would increase bass at lower volumes. The mid range won't change much if any.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Pim
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#6
Thank you all for some great input
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#7
@Sorensen

A few years ago, say, 2016 - 2017 (I think) was the era of the CI upgrades, so Expert amps became the Pro amps. I upgrades from a D120, to the D220. I mention this because I and many others posted about the changes in sound quality, and I think you would find that reading interesting. This updating of the amps generated many comments about the reproduction, or presentation, of the midrange, with some owners finding the midrange more 'recessed' or less forward than with the earlier Expert version. I also noticed that change but came to feel that the difference was really a function of the way the entire frequency range was handled, and I liked it better.  Not everybody liked it. @woodstock was one who commented articulately on this point.

Do a search for CI upgrade sound quality, or something like that. Or for some of my older posts; that should get you there. I wonder if there is a possibility that you might actually prefer the D120 Expert to your D140 Pro. They are much different amps and a step back might be the move you're looking for. Just a crazy thought.

>> Maybe CI upgrade came after the Pro upgrade? Can't remember. Others will correct the dates and sequences of changes.
Damon
W4S modified Sonos Connect & VPI HW19 mkIII into a D220 Pro CI, capably carried by Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cable, and thence made expansive by Lawrence Audio Violin SE speakers, and juiced by wonderful custom power cords from NRG Custom Cables, in Winnipeg, Manitoba. 
Vancouver, Canada
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