220 to 440 ROI

[CongoFather]

The best I've heard from my B&W 802D3 w/ REL G1-MK2 pair is when powered by an Audionet Humboldt & Mola Mola Tambaqui and that'll be my #1 choice for the end-game, Fall back at #2 would be Gryphon Diablo 333 / 300.

So you’re currently running a 440 and aspire to the Diablo. Might I ask what improvements you’re expecting from that? I’ve got my own strength/weakness matrix but would love to hear yours…

Great question! 

I'm inching slowly into retirement with cpl of years to go. And 70% of my music is classical, rest being some acoustic jazz, blues and rock. I've had the D400 from 2016 that moved to the 440-Pro CI in 2018. In the 9 yrs of my living with the Devialets, the one big weakness that I've been battling is their lack of midbass-to-midrange density, harmonic richness and the overall wholesome textures that I so vividly look for being a violinist from age 5 and deep into classical music. Warmth is essential to me without veiling details. I've tackled this issue using digital EQ but it's a patchwork with little or no ill effects and I'm living with it so far.

I must say the Devialets have been outrageously fantastic and personally I love the 1792 DAC chip for its musicality (having home auditioned many greats from dCS, Playback Designs, EMM/Meitner, Grimm etc). However - at the end of the day (and my day is coming sometime soon i.e. retirement), I would like to settle down with something that puts a smile on my face. Having auditioned many Amps & Amps w/ DACs, Audionet's Humboldt to me was a bullet-proof item built to last a lifetime. But its cost is horrendously high hence am looking at pristine Used. And at Humboldt's Used prices, Gryphon Diablo 333 is available as new, Used Diablo 300 being even cheaper. 

Devialet as a company over the years has shied away from support for their Expert range of products. So far I've been lucky with no major failures but who knows what Devialet will do especially after starting their 'new Astra line'. Hence, in time and when the opportunity is right, I intend to swing towards another alternative that has a long term reputation of strong support along with impeccable build quality. 

And finally, Devialet Dual-Monos have a flaw. I connect them using the RCA to AES digital link (that I strongly feel should have been AES-to-AES). And (it's a feeling though I may be wrong) that the channel that is fed with the AES input sounds marginally better that the other with the RCA output. Others here feel free to comment.

I have been planning to replace my Devialet 220 PRO recently. I have 2 different setups in my mind, Gryphon Diablo 333 and Accuphase E-5000 + Mola Mola Tambaqui Dac. Have you had a chance to audition & compare Accuphase E-5000 or Diablo 333 with Devialet Expert Pro Range? As these amplifiers do not have built-in DAC modules, and their DAC modules are sold seperately as optional modules, I am planning to use Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC instead of using their DAC modules in my new setup. Do you think it is a good match to use Mola Mola Tambaqui with  Accuphase E-5000?. I know I should first listen and experience it by using a similar setup. However it's not always possible to find these devices together in a demo room. I currently use Devialet 220 PRO with Lumin U2 streamer and B&W 804D3.

[audio_engr]

So you’re currently running a 440 and aspire to the Diablo. Might I ask what improvements you’re expecting from that? I’ve got my own strength/weakness matrix but would love to hear yours…

Great question! 

I'm inching slowly into retirement with cpl of years to go. And 70% of my music is classical, rest being some acoustic jazz, blues and rock. I've had the D400 from 2016 that moved to the 440-Pro CI in 2018. In the 9 yrs of my living with the Devialets, the one big weakness that I've been battling is their lack of midbass-to-midrange density, harmonic richness and the overall wholesome textures that I so vividly look for being a violinist from age 5 and deep into classical music. Warmth is essential to me without veiling details. I've tackled this issue using digital EQ but it's a patchwork with little or no ill effects and I'm living with it so far.

I must say the Devialets have been outrageously fantastic and personally I love the 1792 DAC chip for its musicality (having home auditioned many greats from dCS, Playback Designs, EMM/Meitner, Grimm etc). However - at the end of the day (and my day is coming sometime soon i.e. retirement), I would like to settle down with something that puts a smile on my face. Having auditioned many Amps & Amps w/ DACs, Audionet's Humboldt to me was a bullet-proof item built to last a lifetime. But its cost is horrendously high hence am looking at pristine Used. And at Humboldt's Used prices, Gryphon Diablo 333 is available as new, Used Diablo 300 being even cheaper. 

Devialet as a company over the years has shied away from support for their Expert range of products. So far I've been lucky with no major failures but who knows what Devialet will do especially after starting their 'new Astra line'. Hence, in time and when the opportunity is right, I intend to swing towards another alternative that has a long term reputation of strong support along with impeccable build quality. 

And finally, Devialet Dual-Monos have a flaw. I connect them using the RCA to AES digital link (that I strongly feel should have been AES-to-AES). And (it's a feeling though I may be wrong) that the channel that is fed with the AES input sounds marginally better that the other with the RCA output. Others here feel free to comment.

I have been planning to replace my Devialet 220 PRO recently. I have 2 different setups in my mind, Gryphon Diablo 333 and Accuphase E-5000 + Mola Mola Tambaqui Dac. Have you had a chance to audition & compare Accuphase E-5000 or Diablo 333 with Devialet Expert Pro Range? As these amplifiers do not have built-in DAC modules, and their DAC modules are sold seperately as optional modules, I am planning to use Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC instead of using their DAC modules in my new setup. Do you think it is a good match to use Mola Mola Tambaqui with  Accuphase E-5000?. I know I should first listen and experience it by using a similar setup. However it's not always possible to find these devices together in a demo room. I currently use Devialet 220 PRO with Lumin U2 streamer and B&W 804D3.

3 weeks back, I made a trip to Germany & NL primarily to finalise my amplification as I plan to move away from my 440-Pro CI thats now closing in on 10 years age. I heard many brands - Accustic Arts, Soulution, Audia Flight, AudioNET, Mola Mola, Accuphase, Esoteric, J-M-F Audio and Burmester. For me and my ears and my classical music genre, I've decided to go with Burmester. It's way more expensive than what I'd budgeted for but thats my endgame.

Accuphase units I heard were A300 monoblocks and A80 stereo amp with their C-3900S pre. They're wonderful but falls short in high frequency extension where it's all "air, spaciousness" etc. Gryphon is also wonderful but a different "tone" from Accuphase. The D3 series from B&W have extended high frequency extension that most find thin and bright thus forcing B&W to address this in their D4 series. In my view, the D3 mandates extremely refined & sophisticated electronics with tonal characteristics that complement the D3's voicing. I've no idea whats your primary music genre but you'll need to try and figure out suitable amplification that works for you and don't forget your room ... it plays a very important role in that ultimate voicing!

[CongoFather]

Great question! 

I'm inching slowly into retirement with cpl of years to go. And 70% of my music is classical, rest being some acoustic jazz, blues and rock. I've had the D400 from 2016 that moved to the 440-Pro CI in 2018. In the 9 yrs of my living with the Devialets, the one big weakness that I've been battling is their lack of midbass-to-midrange density, harmonic richness and the overall wholesome textures that I so vividly look for being a violinist from age 5 and deep into classical music. Warmth is essential to me without veiling details. I've tackled this issue using digital EQ but it's a patchwork with little or no ill effects and I'm living with it so far.

I must say the Devialets have been outrageously fantastic and personally I love the 1792 DAC chip for its musicality (having home auditioned many greats from dCS, Playback Designs, EMM/Meitner, Grimm etc). However - at the end of the day (and my day is coming sometime soon i.e. retirement), I would like to settle down with something that puts a smile on my face. Having auditioned many Amps & Amps w/ DACs, Audionet's Humboldt to me was a bullet-proof item built to last a lifetime. But its cost is horrendously high hence am looking at pristine Used. And at Humboldt's Used prices, Gryphon Diablo 333 is available as new, Used Diablo 300 being even cheaper. 

Devialet as a company over the years has shied away from support for their Expert range of products. So far I've been lucky with no major failures but who knows what Devialet will do especially after starting their 'new Astra line'. Hence, in time and when the opportunity is right, I intend to swing towards another alternative that has a long term reputation of strong support along with impeccable build quality. 

And finally, Devialet Dual-Monos have a flaw. I connect them using the RCA to AES digital link (that I strongly feel should have been AES-to-AES). And (it's a feeling though I may be wrong) that the channel that is fed with the AES input sounds marginally better that the other with the RCA output. Others here feel free to comment.

I have been planning to replace my Devialet 220 PRO recently. I have 2 different setups in my mind, Gryphon Diablo 333 and Accuphase E-5000 + Mola Mola Tambaqui Dac. Have you had a chance to audition & compare Accuphase E-5000 or Diablo 333 with Devialet Expert Pro Range? As these amplifiers do not have built-in DAC modules, and their DAC modules are sold seperately as optional modules, I am planning to use Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC instead of using their DAC modules in my new setup. Do you think it is a good match to use Mola Mola Tambaqui with  Accuphase E-5000?. I know I should first listen and experience it by using a similar setup. However it's not always possible to find these devices together in a demo room. I currently use Devialet 220 PRO with Lumin U2 streamer and B&W 804D3.

3 weeks back, I made a trip to Germany & NL primarily to finalise my amplification as I plan to move away from my 440-Pro CI thats now closing in on 10 years age. I heard many brands - Accustic Arts, Soulution, Audia Flight, AudioNET, Mola Mola, Accuphase, Esoteric, J-M-F Audio and Burmester. For me and my ears and my classical music genre, I've decided to go with Burmester. It's way more expensive than what I'd budgeted for but thats my endgame.

Accuphase units I heard were A300 monoblocks and A80 stereo amp with their C-3900S pre. They're wonderful but falls short in high frequency extension where it's all "air, spaciousness" etc. Gryphon is also wonderful but a different "tone" from Accuphase. The D3 series from B&W have extended high frequency extension that most find thin and bright thus forcing B&W to address this in their D4 series. In my view, the D3 mandates extremely refined & sophisticated electronics with tonal characteristics that complement the D3's voicing. I've no idea whats your primary music genre but you'll need to try and figure out suitable amplification that works for you and don't forget your room ... it plays a very important role in that ultimate voicing!

Thank you for your reply. Only one day after writing my message, I visited a Hifi Audio dealer who has recently started selling Accuphase products. By chance, they also had Gryphon Diablo 333 and Mola Mola Tambaqui on demo. So I had a chance to try Mola Mola Tambaqui with both Accuphase E-5000 and Diablo 333. After my visit, I made my decision only about the DAC.  I will high likely to buy and use Mola Mola Tambaqui in my new setup. On the other hand, I can say that Accuphase E-5000 is very emotional and is very good for vocals / jazz. However, when you want to hear extended, punchy bass, it's less convincing . Diablo 333  has better bass control. However, I prefer listening vocals and jazz by using Accuphase instead. Tonally, accuphase products sound better and emotional. As a result, I will continue searching for better amplifiers. I am planning to visit the same place and listen Mola Mola Preamplifier with Mola Mola mono block amplifiers soon. I am curious to see if I can find the emotion and warmness present in Accuphase as well as faster, detailed bass response with airy , but not harsh treble within a wide soundstage.

[ray1234]

Thank you for your reply. Only one day after writing my message, I visited a Hifi Audio dealer who has recently started selling Accuphase products. By chance, they also had Gryphon Diablo 333 and Mola Mola Tambaqui on demo. So I had a chance to try Mola Mola Tambaqui with both Accuphase E-5000 and Diablo 333. After my visit, I made my decision only about the DAC.  I will high likely to buy and use Mola Mola Tambaqui in my new setup. On the other hand, I can say that Accuphase E-5000 is very emotional and is very good for vocals / jazz. However, when you want to hear extended, punchy bass, it's less convincing . Diablo 333  has better bass control. However, I prefer listening vocals and jazz by using Accuphase instead. Tonally, accuphase products sound better and emotional. As a result, I will continue searching for better amplifiers. I am planning to visit the same place and listen Mola Mola Preamplifier with Mola Mola mono block amplifiers soon. I am curious to see if I can find the emotion and warmness present in Accuphase as well as faster, detailed bass response with airy , but not harsh treble within a wide soundstage.

There is no perfect amp in this world, it is all a compromise.

I hate to say, but after having owned a Devialet, it is not an easy task to find another amp beating it in all areas. Accuphase and McIntosh both has attractive vocals, but at the expense of some air. The soundstage both present is not as airy as Devialet. Both depending on models can present bass in quite some authority, but again depends whether you like bass very tight or bass with some air as in Devialet's presentation. In terms of bass quality, it is not easy to beat Devialet.

Burmester is quite an amp. It has a beautiful character that will be present no matter what speakers you use, of course whether you find that character overwhelming is a personal thing. It is airy and presents a picture more beautiful than Devialet. Texture however is not its strength, in comparison with amps like Accuphase and McIntosh.

Personally, I like Swiss amps, both CH and Soulution are my favorite. These amps are transparent, you can add taste to what you like via the DAC and interconnects, that's how I like to tune my system.

[audio_engr]

@CongoFather and @ray1234

Having read your very recent posts above, I must ADD that every time I go out in search of replacing my 440-Pro CI, its a very-very tough battle of minds with me primarily as the Devialets do so many things "right" and its not easy to overtake them. Over and above, there's nothing "perfect" and there's always some compromise irrespective of the cost. Each one of us have varying listening tastes, genre of our music and so on ... but our listening room too plays a super vital role towards the ultimate outcome. 

And finally - after every effort that I put in to find a replacement of my Devialets and having decided that yes - this package sounds better, upon returning home and warming up the Devialets and doing a lengthy listening session, I begin to wonder "what am I missing and am I not really enjoying these hassle-free Devialets ?"  

Only time will tell which way I go BUT I am in no hurry yet!

[ray1234]

@CongoFather and @ray1234

Having read your very recent posts above, I must ADD that every time I go out in search of replacing my 440-Pro CI, its a very-very tough battle of minds with me primarily as the Devialets do so many things "right" and its not easy to overtake them. Over and above, there's nothing "perfect" and there's always some compromise irrespective of the cost. Each one of us have varying listening tastes, genre of our music and so on ... but our listening room too plays a super vital role towards the ultimate outcome. 

And finally - after every effort that I put in to find a replacement of my Devialets and having decided that yes - this package sounds better, upon returning home and warming up the Devialets and doing a lengthy listening session, I begin to wonder "what am I missing and am I not really enjoying these hassle-free Devialets ?"  

Only time will tell which way I go BUT I am in no hurry yet!

Absolutely agree with what you said, I am on the same boat. I am using Devialet 400+Focal Kanta 2+SVS subwoofer. I am trying to improve texture of music instruments, which I think a lot of other speakers can do that as texture is not really the strength of the Kanta or maybe Focal in general. However, out of the numerous other systems I listened to, say Wilson Watt/Puppy, B&W 801, Sonus Faber and also Serblin Frankin, all these speakers provide a better texture than Kanta, but I miss the airy details in the treble, none of these speakers can do the airy details like Kanta/Devialet can, I don't know if it is the Kanta or the Devialet that works the magic here.

I actually went through the normal path of upgrading to one step above, the Sopra 2. However, I find the treble of the Sopra 2 not as sweet as the Kanta 2, although mid and bass downwards the Sopra is much better. I am still searching ..... would appreciate if anyone has any opinion....

[audio_engr]

@CongoFather and @ray1234

Having read your very recent posts above, I must ADD that every time I go out in search of replacing my 440-Pro CI, its a very-very tough battle of minds with me primarily as the Devialets do so many things "right" and its not easy to overtake them. Over and above, there's nothing "perfect" and there's always some compromise irrespective of the cost. Each one of us have varying listening tastes, genre of our music and so on ... but our listening room too plays a super vital role towards the ultimate outcome. 

And finally - after every effort that I put in to find a replacement of my Devialets and having decided that yes - this package sounds better, upon returning home and warming up the Devialets and doing a lengthy listening session, I begin to wonder "what am I missing and am I not really enjoying these hassle-free Devialets ?"  

Only time will tell which way I go BUT I am in no hurry yet!

Absolutely agree with what you said, I am on the same boat. I am using Devialet 400+Focal Kanta 2+SVS subwoofer. I am trying to improve texture of music instruments, which I think a lot of other speakers can do that as texture is not really the strength of the Kanta or maybe Focal in general. However, out of the numerous other systems I listened to, say Wilson Watt/Puppy, B&W 801, Sonus Faber and also Serblin Frankin, all these speakers provide a better texture than Kanta, but I miss the airy details in the treble, none of these speakers can do the airy details like Kanta/Devialet can, I don't know if it is the Kanta or the Devialet that works the magic here.

I actually went through the normal path of upgrading to one step above, the Sopra 2. However, I find the treble of the Sopra 2 not as sweet as the Kanta 2, although mid and bass downwards the Sopra is much better. I am still searching ..... would appreciate if anyone has any opinion....

I use B&W 802D3 + Pair of REL G1-MKII subs with my 440-Pro and you are on Focal Sopra 2. Both these speakers share something in common; the extended high frequency that adds "air, spaciousness and ambience" and when as a listener you're subjected to this level of open-ness, its no going back as other speakers will always remind you that there's something missing in the entire frequency response. Some of that texture that you're fighting for can be worked out using the Roon's EQ system in a very controlled and mild way and this is what I've done.