802 Diamond - D200 vs D400

[Confused]

Stigmater - I recall an earlier post of yours where you mentioned it is difficult to audition speakers (not sure if you meant in general or due to your location?). What could you get to listen to where you are?

I guess there is 7-10 dealers that I could go and listen to brands that they have, what exactly they have in demo I don't know but I can check.
Except Wilson Audio I can't really think of something that I  wanted to listen to , other then what I already had.
The problem with this particular Wilson dealer as opposed to other dealers is that he way overprice the brands that he distribute, I didn't checked yet but I think beyond my budget.

My dilemma right now since I'm relatively new in this hobby ,don't have much experience and already invested quite big amount of savings, is where stands Devialet relatively to other High-End Amps brands? I already asked this question in some way or another in other threads but didn't really feel that I got answered.
I want to understand in what direction to dig, speakers or AMP, and which are ?

This is probably not the place to ask how Devialet relates to other high end amp brands.  I would say the Devialet is the best in the world, does any one on here agree with me?  Being more serious, I have always thought that the key to a decent system is having and amplifier and speaker combination that work well together, this is a more subtle point than just sating product A is 15% better than product B.  Also, I think the one component that makes the biggest difference to the character of a system, and by far I would say, is the speakers.  Try speaker A vs speaker B, you may get a big difference, much of this difference will still be apparent with any reasonably compatible amplifier.  You will never get speaker A to sound like speaker B by switching amps.  So I always think the best approach is to establish exactly which speaker suits your own personal preferences, budget, listening room etc.  Once you have decided on the speakers, then look at which amplifier drives it best within whatever budget you set.  Of course, you have already gone down the Devialet route, but I would say that this should not be a big issue for you.  One thing that amasses me reading some of the posts on here is the shear range and variety of speakers that people have chosen to attach to the end of a Devialet, it must be a significant percentage of every reasonably respectable speaker available on the planet.  So if you decide on a different speaker, there is a good chance that the Devialet will remain a good choice.  You state that you have 7 to 10 dealers within range, that is quite a lot these days!  So I would say that it would be well worth your time booking a few appointments to listen to a few speaker options.  I know many will state that you have to demo at home, and I would agree once you get to the point of pulling the trigger on a significant purchase.  However, I don't think it is practical, or even fair on the dealers to try to home demo maybe 10 different options.  Logistically difficult and very time consuming.  But spending some time with the odd visit to different dealers to try a few options is surely worth while, with a view to narrowing down to a very short list, or even just one for that home demo.  How you approach this is up to you of course!

The other issue when asking the question "how Devialet relates to other high end amp brands?", is that the DAC is an integral part of the Devialet architecture.  So lets say you wanted to try Devialet vs Chord vs Bryston mono blocks, you then have to decide what DAC to use with the Chord and Bryston options.  I have actually done this, amongst other comparisons.  One conclusion my ears reached, is that Bryston with Chord DAC or Chard Amp with Chord DAC can get close to a Devialet at similar money.  The same with Bryston or Naim Dac's, nowhere near as close.  I concluded a while back that my ears like Chord DAC's, and Devialet's DAC, the difference with amps of similar power and quality is of lesser influence in my view.  (Although still a factor) 

From my experience trying to find something to drive the KEF Blades, is that I could find DAC / Amp combinations that would run the Devialet close, but this was consistently coming out at a price that was more than the D240 I was considering at the time, so I ended up buying a D240.  Since then "SAM" has been added, as this improves SQ even further, that original decision starts to look even better.  One key point to note here, I did also try a D200 with the Blades.  The result was poor, somewhere through the frequency / loading curve of the Blades there was clearly something that did not work with the D200, so as I said at the beginning, it is about system matching, getting an amp that works well with your speakers.

Subsequently, I have also heard the Blades with much more expensive amplification, and concluded that the end result was inferior to Devialet power.

So in summary, the Devialet is pound for pound the best amplifier on the planet, and once you get to D800, it is the best in the world in absolute terms.  (a slightly tongue in cheek summary I would admit! )

[Confused]

One other point I have just remembered. Hifi News and Record Review, which some might consider a publication that unashamedly promotes "Hi-End" kit, uses a D800 as there "reference" amplifier, and have indeed used a D800 when reviewing some very, very, expensive speakers over the last year or so. This must say something?

[Stigmater]

Confused,

Thanks for detailed answer
I'm more and more convinced that people here are experienced enough and they're choice of Devialet is not by chance.
its difficult to me bring high -end  AMP's  to demo with my speakers at my home  and compare ,
my Audiophile friends not really believe in Deviate as i do, they claim as well that at Audio shows that they been to,  Devialet booth was not impressive at all .

To be objective,
since we are on Deviaet forum and here gathered people that have and like Devialet amps,
I didn't searched for other forums,
( to be honest i don't know if there are any entire forums that dedicated to one product of one manufacture )
where people sharing and saying that their AMP is the best after they checked many others and Devialet is one of many others to them)

i believe that i simply didn't found yet the speakers that i can get old with,
i want invest for last time and just to enjoy the perfect system .

Please share what you think of   my earlier post here, i know that people here have the mentioned speakers,
their opinion is important as well to me.

Is there anyone here with 802 Diamonds? i'd like to hear your experience with the speakers.

From moment i started this thread till now i upgraded to D250 and that upgrade from D200 gave me major impact on SQ that i get with my speakers now.
Highs started to sound really sweet (was bright) , bass more defined and full , mid OK , so in overall the sound is good but i still thought that i don't get absolute bass control.
I took for a home demo another D250 and now i have D800 ( still on loan) , the impact on SQ was not huge compared to financial side of the case ( 12900Eur) , but the impact is present and mainly in the bass area , a little more defined and less smear then with one D250.
Still  im not 100% happy with the result, and don't get me wrong , the result is good, its me who trying to reach perfection here and not the B&W that cant provide.

What im trying to say is , if im not completely happy then maybe i should not upgrade to D800, stay with D250 and invest in new speakers?
or maybe invest in different AMP that will bring my B&W to the top?


Month or two ago  i went with my D250 to audition Rockport Avior and i have to say that i really was disappointed with bright and lifeless speaker, maybe its the Devialet  that i need to blame , i don't know.
The reviews on speakers in general are always great , no matter what . This particuler speaker got one of the best reviews, So i really don't know how such good speakers according to reviewers could sound less then perfect.
The dealer is pairing the speakers with PASS labs and he claims its sound better then with Devialet,
dealer invited me to come back later and check the speakers with PASS labs amp connected since we had no time to do it then,  but i didn't had the chance to visit him again since.
Another speaker that i auditioned was Magico Q-3 , as well i came with my D250 and Aurender with all my playlists ready, files that i know well how they sound on my setup at home.

My impression of Magico's speakers with music that i know exactly how its sound at my place was good at first , bass was great, a lot resolution and pleasure, mid's were amazing  but,
the speaker was bright at some tracks,
and i know that tasks and i know  how it should sound at my setup and its sound good,
I think its  unacceptable for speakers with price tag as Magico Q-3 to sound bright!!!

By the way one of the tracks that i relay love to "torture" speakers when i audition them is with  George Michael - Feeling Good  from new Symphonica  album , i got it in High Res and at point that all the orchestra start to play the  Feeling Good couplet its just sound bright and unpleasant on Magico's.


So....
Lately im more and more see  in different threads here on forum people which are very satisfied  with Wilson Audio Sasha 2 , include  Guillaume
just a thought , please share what you think .

[Confused]

I reckon that you find could very many and varied opinions on speakers, they are such a personal choice.  You mention the  Wilson Audio Sasha 2's, I would suspect Guillaume is a fan, or otherwise he would not have chosen them as a purchase!  I have actually heard the Sasha 2's on a number of occasions, with Devialet amplification.  To be honest, I am not super keen on them.  However, I can easily see why some people like them, they are incredibly competent speakers, in fact I would find it very difficult to criticise them in any areas.  Having said that, I prefer the KEF Blade, so I guess that's why I chose to purchase the KEF Blade.  One point I would make is that I have also spent some time with the B&W 800 Diamonds, these too are very competent, but head to head with the Sasha 2's, I'd take the Sasha's, a far more enjoyable listen in my view.  There are also just so many speaker options out there.  Once I listened to some Quad ELS 2912's in a very carefully set up demonstration, this sticks in my memory as one of the very best things I have ever heard, but with my taste in music / volume / palpable bass, they just wouldn't work.  For others, they could be utterly unbeatable.  But having written all this, it is really nothing other than the view of one person, other views will be different, the one that matters is your own, and that will take at least a few dealer auditions to establish.  Happy hunting!

P.S. I'll try your George Michael - Feeling Good track on the Blades at the weekend, just for fun!

[Gentleman]

Hi folks.

Just last night we did some tests with our gear that fits into this discussion. As I want to replace my WA Sasha 1 I am looking for all kind of SAMed speakers. As I sold my D800 just recently (waiting for its replacement to be delivered from Devialet) we have been using a D400 instead. The rest is the usual (PS Audio P10, Artesania rack, selfmade three chassis JPLAY audio PC, MUTEC, JCAT and Analysis plus cables).

In former times we have used all kind of amps such as Jeff Rowland, Krell, AVM, Audionet, LINN, Naim, Classe, etc. but in fact we have NEVER reached such a high level of SQ and satisfaction over the last 30 years before. To us the integration of nearly all components into one device seems to be the brilliant idea that solves many problems. Before we have experienced lots of problems with the matching of components plus the required interconnects. Now we have only one unit plus one power cable and one digital cable. Thats it. Much less variants to test....

So yesterday we received the new B&W 803 D3 which we tested against the Sasha 1. Before we started our tests we thought the Sasha 1 should still be the more satisfying speaker but in fact we three liked the 803 D3 more than the WA! Even though only played for approx 50 hours at the dealer the 803 D3 was more accurate and more lifelike compared to the four year old Sasha 1. it was especially interesting to compare the smaller 803 D3 with its 2x 160mm bass chassis to the 2x 8" of the Sasha 1. the Sasha 1 used to overpower the room with its mighty bass output even with SAM adjusted to only 5%. Finally we moved the 803 D3 even further away from the rear wall than the WA before and kept SAM at only 5%.

The result is very good with a nice weight and lots of additional information. Only the impression of the stage has been reduced compared to the WA. But we plan to adjust the placement of the speakers again next weekend after an additional week of break-in.

To my surprise the B&W 803 D3 needed the power of the D400 very much. We even turned the volume slightly higher up than we did before with the WA Sasha 1 to have a similar impression of the music.

Finally around midnight we have changed from firmware 8.1.3 to 9.0.1. Our first impression was a more natural, even more fluid reproduction of the music. Nobody suggested going back to 8.1.3.

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan

[Allman77]

Hi folks.

Just last night we did some tests with our gear that fits into this discussion. As I want to replace my WA Sasha 1 I am looking for all kind of SAMed speakers. As I sold my D800 just recently (waiting for its replacement to be delivered from Devialet) we have been using a D400 instead. The rest is the usual (PS Audio P10, Artesania rack, selfmade three chassis JPLAY audio PC, MUTEC, JCAT and Analysis plus cables).

In former times we have used all kind of amps such as Jeff Rowland, Krell, AVM, Audionet, LINN, Naim, Classe, etc. but in fact we have NEVER reached such a high level of SQ and satisfaction over the last 30 years before. To us the integration of nearly all components into one device seems to be the brilliant idea that solves many problems. Before we have experienced lots of problems with the matching of components plus the required interconnects. Now we have only one unit plus one power cable and one digital cable. Thats it. Much less variants to test....

So yesterday we received the new B&W 803 D3 which we tested against the Sasha 1. Before we started our tests we thought the Sasha 1 should still be the more satisfying speaker but in fact we three liked the 803 D3 more than the WA! Even though only played for approx 50 hours at the dealer the 803 D3 was more accurate and more lifelike compared to the four year old Sasha 1. it was especially interesting to compare the smaller 803 D3 with its 2x 160mm bass chassis to the 2x 8" of the Sasha 1. the Sasha 1 used to overpower the room with its mighty bass output even with SAM adjusted to only 5%. Finally we moved the 803 D3 even further away from the rear wall than the WA before and kept SAM at only 5%.

The result is very good with a nice weight and lots of additional information. Only the impression of the stage has been reduced compared to the WA. But we plan to adjust the placement of the speakers again next weekend after an additional week of break-in.

To my surprise the B&W 803 D3 needed the power of the D400 very much. We even turned the volume slightly higher up than we did before with the WA Sasha 1 to have a similar impression of the music.

Finally around midnight we have changed from firmware 8.1.3 to 9.0.1. Our first impression was a more natural, even more fluid reproduction of the music. Nobody suggested going back to 8.1.3.

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan

Very nice read, do you or anybody else have any more info on the 803 D3 with Devialet?
I've listened to the 803 D3 with Classe/Pass Labs/Moon audio but unfortunately not yet with Devialet 200. I really like this speaker and is on my shortlist to buy. i currently own 804 Diamond but this has proven to be a 'difficult marriage' with my Devialet.

[Axel]

Hi folks.

Just last night we did some tests with our gear that fits into this discussion. As I want to replace my WA Sasha 1 I am looking for all kind of SAMed speakers. As I sold my D800 just recently (waiting for its replacement to be delivered from Devialet) we have been using a D400 instead. The rest is the usual (PS Audio P10, Artesania rack, selfmade three chassis JPLAY audio PC, MUTEC, JCAT and Analysis plus cables).

In former times we have used all kind of amps such as Jeff Rowland, Krell, AVM, Audionet, LINN, Naim, Classe, etc. but in fact we have NEVER reached such a high level of SQ and satisfaction over the last 30 years before. To us the integration of nearly all components into one device seems to be the brilliant idea that solves many problems. Before we have experienced lots of problems with the matching of components plus the required interconnects. Now we have only one unit plus one power cable and one digital cable. Thats it. Much less variants to test....

So yesterday we received the new B&W 803 D3 which we tested against the Sasha 1. Before we started our tests we thought the Sasha 1 should still be the more satisfying speaker but in fact we three liked the 803 D3 more than the WA! Even though only played for approx 50 hours at the dealer the 803 D3 was more accurate and more lifelike compared to the four year old Sasha 1. it was especially interesting to compare the smaller 803 D3 with its 2x 160mm bass chassis to the 2x 8" of the Sasha 1. the Sasha 1 used to overpower the room with its mighty bass output even with SAM adjusted to only 5%. Finally we moved the 803 D3 even further away from the rear wall than the WA before and kept SAM at only 5%.

The result is very good with a nice weight and lots of additional information. Only the impression of the stage has been reduced compared to the WA. But we plan to adjust the placement of the speakers again next weekend after an additional week of break-in.

To my surprise the B&W 803 D3 needed the power of the D400 very much. We even turned the volume slightly higher up than we did before with the WA Sasha 1 to have a similar impression of the music.

Finally around midnight we have changed from firmware 8.1.3 to 9.0.1. Our first impression was a more natural, even more fluid reproduction of the music. Nobody suggested going back to 8.1.3.

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan

Very nice post, Jan. Very informative. I use ProAc D20R and absolutely love them. They are easy to listen to with a beautiful tonal balance. I am thinking of auditioning the ProAc D30R and the new B&W 804D as I've just upgraded to a D400.

Al.

[actx76092]

Hi folks.

Just last night we did some tests with our gear that fits into this discussion. As I want to replace my WA Sasha 1 I am looking for all kind of SAMed speakers. As I sold my D800 just recently (waiting for its replacement to be delivered from Devialet) we have been using a D400 instead. The rest is the usual (PS Audio P10, Artesania rack, selfmade three chassis JPLAY audio PC, MUTEC, JCAT and Analysis plus cables).

In former times we have used all kind of amps such as Jeff Rowland, Krell, AVM, Audionet, LINN, Naim, Classe, etc. but in fact we have NEVER reached such a high level of SQ and satisfaction over the last 30 years before. To us the integration of nearly all components into one device seems to be the brilliant idea that solves many problems. Before we have experienced lots of problems with the matching of components plus the required interconnects. Now we have only one unit plus one power cable and one digital cable. Thats it. Much less variants to test....

So yesterday we received the new B&W 803 D3 which we tested against the Sasha 1. Before we started our tests we thought the Sasha 1 should still be the more satisfying speaker but in fact we three liked the 803 D3 more than the WA! Even though only played for approx 50 hours at the dealer the 803 D3 was more accurate and more lifelike compared to the four year old Sasha 1. it was especially interesting to compare the smaller 803 D3 with its 2x 160mm bass chassis to the 2x 8" of the Sasha 1. the Sasha 1 used to overpower the room with its mighty bass output even with SAM adjusted to only 5%. Finally we moved the 803 D3 even further away from the rear wall than the WA before and kept SAM at only 5%.

The result is very good with a nice weight and lots of additional information. Only the impression of the stage has been reduced compared to the WA. But we plan to adjust the placement of the speakers again next weekend after an additional week of break-in.

To my surprise the B&W 803 D3 needed the power of the D400 very much. We even turned the volume slightly higher up than we did before with the WA Sasha 1 to have a similar impression of the music.

Finally around midnight we have changed from firmware 8.1.3 to 9.0.1. Our first impression was a more natural, even more fluid reproduction of the music. Nobody suggested going back to 8.1.3.

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan

Jan - can you elaborate a bit? Have the 803s running on a D200.. exactly what benefits do you think I'll get going to 400.

[abcd]

The 802d3s were more resolving than the sopra2s but also sounded too forward imho, so much so that it became uncomfortable during a demo. Other people's tastes can obviously differ.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[audio_engr]

Anyone tried Bi-amping 802 D3 or 803 D3 with D200 master + D200 companion ?