AIR1 v AIR2 v Spark

[IanG-UK]

One of my prime reasons for buying a D-Premier, and then two, was the promise from Devialet that a Mac source would connect wirelessly to the router and wirelessly to the D-Premier. And would work. Single source. No wires. Few boxes. Perfect! (Maybe)

"AIR1"
This was delivered, in theory, when Devialet installed the wifi board in the D-Premier (in early 2012, I think), though users struggled with connectivity, allegedly because of lack of knowledge of wifi networks and routers/channels/buffers. At the time, these were seemingly the weaknesses of the AIR ("AIR1") system as implemented by users (according to Devialet) which, in its original guise, was wireless only and was Mac only and (I think) was driven by taking binary data from the music file on the Mac - with the decoding and clocking happening in the D-Premier.

"AIR2"
The D-Premier then became the 240 (etc, and now the Expert) in around May 2013; equipped with ethernet as well as wifi for AIR ("AIR2") and became Mac and PC compatible and driven by emulating a sound card device local to the computer - with the sound card having to emulate the clock in the Expert.

When it fails to do so with sufficient accuracy, the result from both PCs and Macs is what is generally termed "white noise".

Since then, plenty of AIR users have been plagued by this "white noise" problem. Our own surveys on this were based on small, and self selecting, sample sizes but showed white noise incidence for between 45% and 80% of users. There are no figures released by Devialet themselves as to the incidence level.

"Spark"
Now we have Spark for Phantom - and I understand that this reverts to taking binary data from the music file (in the Mac or the PC) - with the decoding and clocking happening in the Phantom. I have had no white noise incidence through this system and have not found any posts from others citing this as an issue. (So why not use it within Expert or revert to AIR1, or both?)

Spark/Dialog/Phantom was released in December 2014. It is not entirely wireless: as I understand it there has to be an ethernet connection from source to Dialog and, whilst the connection from Dialog to Phantom appears to be wireless, I understand the transmission uses the best of wifi 2.4 and wifi 5.0 and powerplug, as selected automatically.

Question:
Does anyone know why, given that the AIR2 problem appears pretty much insoluble, there appears to be such a problem in speedily making Expert compatible with Dialog? Spark has been around nine months now and yet Devialet still has no ETA for Dialog/Expert delivery.

I've had some success in getting updates from Devialet (always polite, often very slow) but, as is their style, they are understandably very reluctant to admit failure from any of their product elements with the default words "we are working on it" appearing more times than I care to recall.

[Pim]

I think you've got a point there Ian. Whilst I'm typing this, I'm streaming music from Tidal over a 3G mobile network to my work laptop. No interruptions, just continuous music. Surely, if you can stream those 1's and 0's from the internet either over a mobile network, or even worse, over two tiny copper wires (as the internet comes into our homes) to a laptop, it must be possible to do the same to a Devialet without hick ups. Wouldn't it be great if they just made a new AIR module that just works to replace the old? I wouldn't even want it under warranty. I would pay money for it, just so I don't have to go out and buy a more expensive streamer.

[Music or sound]

AIR had the potential to sound good, much better than USB but I find it in its present form unusable. Like Ian I thought that when I got my D-premier I will be able to receive wireless data and produce exemplary sound quality (no clutter but high-end sound). Upgrading to D250 had added ethernet (which I do not use presently as I gave up on WiFi) . One option Devialet could develop is a Dialog like device which allows to receive WiFi from a computer or better directly from a Wlan router and use ethernet cable to connect to an "expert".
A box with ethernet connection will be still an other box of clutter but I am thinking the design of the "expert" metal shell may prevent reliable WiFi. Also Devialet's ethernet connection is based on proprietary codes (i.e. AIR) and therefore not useable without AIR. Maybe the upgrade from D-Premier to D250 was big waste of money relative to a good USB converter (or even better I2S)!

[IanG-UK]

Yes Pim it intrigues me as to why this isn't addressed - which is why I draw the conclusion that AIR2 is flawed but they cannot back out of it, for some reason.

And I still have the view - though perhaps a preconditioned one - that AIR1 gives the best sound. An established company would have corrected the AIR problem quickly. I think the presence of many big investors has reordered Devialet's priorities, unfortunately.

[f1eng]

I am with you Ian, the big mistake was trying to make Air PC and non-iTunes compatible.

My view was that if somebody wanted to use Air a Mac is cheaper than a lot of the other hifi kit people buy...

[Confused]

It looks like no one can answer Ian's questions, in particular the one I've found unfathomable for a while, why is it so so difficult to get the USB output on the Dialog enabled? So difficult in fact, it takes a team of French geniuses over a year to implement? I'm baffled!

[brit]

It looks like no one can answer Ian's questions, in particular the one I've found unfathomable for a while, why is it so so difficult to get the USB output on the Dialog enabled?  So difficult in fact, it takes a team of French geniuses over a year to implement?  I'm baffled!

I've now got so "teed off" waiting for Devialet to sort out the integration of Dialog with the Expert range that I have sent mine back fore a full refund .


David

[petrik]

It looks like no one can answer Ian's questions, in particular the one I've found unfathomable for a while, why is it so so difficult to get the USB output on the Dialog enabled?  So difficult in fact, it takes a team of French geniuses over a year to implement?  I'm baffled!

That's a good question. It's difficult to say since they don't tell so much about what is going on at the moment. I think (and hope) that they are trying to make Dialog sounding and working (UX point of view) better than AIR.. although AIR is already sounding absolutely fantastic!  Expert line customers are anyway going to compare Dialog to other streamers (Totaldac, Aurender, Melco, Linn, Bluesound, Sonos... etc)., so I assume that Devialet will release the Dialog when it's really ready.

[Confused]

OK - It looks like no one can answer why it takes a team of French geniuses over a year to implement USB output on the Dialog? So here is my theory ....

The world is full of USB drivers, and the USB input to the Devialet is pretty much industry standard. How hard can it be? I wonder if Devialet, who I believe are selling Dialog almost at cost (it is cheap), are worried about people using Dialog with other DAC / amplifier combinations? Maybe they did have a working USB output back in February, then someone said, "hang on, this will work with anything, people will buy it because it's cheap, use it with any old amplifier (not a nice expensive / profitable Devialet one), and we'll be inundated with queries regarding spark whilest making no cash". Just a theory.....

If ultimately the Dialog does gain expert compatibility with the Expert range, but it is some kind on non standard implementation that will not work with any old USB DAC, I would say theory confirmed and I am a genius! If not, then I am happy to remain an idiot with an over active imagination sometimes......

[Womaz]

I was actually wondering wether an email to Devialet from one of the organisers of this forum might get more accurate information. If Dev know that the reply will be posted on this forum then they may be a little more honest or is the word forthcoming , with the information