Any feedback on Phanotom from Paris and/or London?

[amabrok]

thanks Matt and Ian for sharing your first impressions!

i believe the other built-in streaming service in Dialog (in addition to Qobuz) is Deezer 

[warpeon]

I think dialog is an interim solution for the expert line. May be the expert line don't have enough processing power or ram (memory) storage. At such, the dlna upnp implementation will be faulty. I think the next expert line hardware update in the next 24 months will integrate the dialog functions.

[thumb5]

I think Devialet were expecting "Expert" owners to want Dialog.  Why else would Devialet themselves announce that Dialog would work with the Expert range "via USB initially" at the Phantom / Dialog launch last year?

Under pressure from legacy owners looking for something new?
The experience they have had will show them legacy owners will want extra functions they had never planned
I still believe that Dialog is part of the Phantom system and making it work with the legacy amps will be of secondary importance to Devialet and certainly can not be done at the expense of the Phantom system, perhaps not an afterthought but almost certainly not a principle aim of the Dialog concept.
Probably the same with the remote.

I for one would be happy as a "legacy owner" with a product that worked reliably as advertised.  Although I don't suffer from problems with AIR as badly as others have reported, it is still not without problems streaming 16/44 material from an Apple machine using Apple network components as recommended by Devialet.

Devialet themselves have muddied the waters, and perhaps created a rod for their own back, by suggesting that Dialog is a work-around for these problems.  That's not the solution I want; Devialet need to fix AIR so that the Expert range is a properly-working product in its own right.

As to future enhancements to the Expert range: that would be fine and dandy provided they don't mess up what's already been delivered, but personally I don't demand or expect anything more than what was promised when I bought the equipment.

My main worry is that there will always be a "next big thing" like Phantom that diverts engineering resources away from fixing what Devialet have already delivered.  Will we be having a similar disscussion in a year's time about flakiness in Phantom, Dialog or Spark that Devialet haven't got time to fix because they've been working so hard on something that's going to sell to yet another much wider audience?

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic, but that's how it feels to me at the moment.

[PhilP]

I think Devialet were expecting "Expert" owners to want Dialog.  Why else would Devialet themselves announce that Dialog would work with the Expert range "via USB initially" at the Phantom / Dialog launch last year?

Under pressure from legacy owners looking for something new?
The experience they have had will show them legacy owners will want extra functions they had never planned
I still believe that Dialog is part of the Phantom system and making it work with the legacy amps will be of secondary importance to Devialet and certainly can not be done at the expense of the Phantom system, perhaps not an afterthought but almost certainly not a principle aim of the Dialog concept.
Probably the same with the remote.

One of the reasons that I cancelled my order for a Dialog was that I am sceptical that they will be able to deliver full functional support for both Phantom and the Expert range through the same box. Particularly given the limited range of input/outputs available. Given Devialet's undoubted technical ability I may well be proved wrong but I think if they stick with one box they will compromise support for the Expert range...  

It would be better if they developed a separate optimised 'Dialog Expert'.

[amabrok]

For me dialog should be just a wireless bridge to connect my d400 to nas and other wireless eco systems that are not and will not be compatible with the expert line and as such I don't worry much about us limited input potions.

Also imagine if it provides a link between master and slave wirelessly like it does with 2 phantoms.


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[f1eng]

I think Devialet were expecting "Expert" owners to want Dialog.  Why else would Devialet themselves announce that Dialog would work with the Expert range "via USB initially" at the Phantom / Dialog launch last year?

Under pressure from legacy owners looking for something new?
The experience they have had will show them legacy owners will want extra functions they had never planned
I still believe that Dialog is part of the Phantom system and making it work with the legacy amps will be of secondary importance to Devialet and certainly can not be done at the expense of the Phantom system, perhaps not an afterthought but almost certainly not a principle aim of the Dialog concept.
Probably the same with the remote.

I for one would be happy as a "legacy owner" with a product that worked reliably as advertised.  Although I don't suffer from problems with AIR as badly as others have reported, it is still not without problems streaming 16/44 material from an Apple machine using Apple network components as recommended by Devialet.

Devialet themselves have muddied the waters, and perhaps created a rod for their own back, by suggesting that Dialog is a work-around for these problems.  That's not the solution I want; Devialet need to fix AIR so that the Expert range is a properly-working product in its own right.

As to future enhancements to the Expert range: that would be fine and dandy provided they don't mess up what's already been delivered, but personally I don't demand or expect anything more than what was promised when I bought the equipment.

My main worry is that there will always be a "next big thing" like Phantom that diverts engineering resources away from fixing what Devialet have already delivered.  Will we be having a similar disscussion in a year's time about flakiness in Phantom, Dialog or Spark that Devialet haven't got time to fix because they've been working so hard on something that's going to sell to yet another much wider audience?

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic, but that's how it feels to me at the moment.

I tend to agree. Let us hope not!
My best Devialet experience(s) have been with the D-Premier early on.
It has gone backwards since, for one reason or another. The only positives are my updated units are supposed to have a bigger power supply capability and more DSP, which I do not benefit from. With the latest firmware it runs about 10C cooler.
Air is no better and I have lost my HDMI input

[ozthepoz]

I think Devialet were expecting "Expert" owners to want Dialog.  Why else would Devialet themselves announce that Dialog would work with the Expert range "via USB initially" at the Phantom / Dialog launch last year?

Under pressure from legacy owners looking for something new?
The experience they have had will show them legacy owners will want extra functions they had never planned
I still believe that Dialog is part of the Phantom system and making it work with the legacy amps will be of secondary importance to Devialet and certainly can not be done at the expense of the Phantom system, perhaps not an afterthought but almost certainly not a principle aim of the Dialog concept.
Probably the same with the remote.

I for one would be happy as a "legacy owner" with a product that worked reliably as advertised.  Although I don't suffer from problems with AIR as badly as others have reported, it is still not without problems streaming 16/44 material from an Apple machine using Apple network components as recommended by Devialet.

Devialet themselves have muddied the waters, and perhaps created a rod for their own back, by suggesting that Dialog is a work-around for these problems.  That's not the solution I want; Devialet need to fix AIR so that the Expert range is a properly-working product in its own right.

As to future enhancements to the Expert range: that would be fine and dandy provided they don't mess up what's already been delivered, but personally I don't demand or expect anything more than what was promised when I bought the equipment.

My main worry is that there will always be a "next big thing" like Phantom that diverts engineering resources away from fixing what Devialet have already delivered.  Will we be having a similar disscussion in a year's time about flakiness in Phantom, Dialog or Spark that Devialet haven't got time to fix because they've been working so hard on something that's going to sell to yet another much wider audience?

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic, but that's how it feels to me at the moment.

I agree; I'm delighted with my 250 as it is and even if there are no major improvements, it's still my amp of choice.

The way I see it, the expert line is still their flagship range, with the 400/800 dual mono config setup at the top of the tree from an SQ perspective (as well as multiple inputs, flexibility etc). As good as the phantoms may be, they are still a one size fits all solution and I certainly can't see them replacing my ML electrostatics any time soon. I'm sure that goes for many of us who own speakers that suit our tastes, music and listening environment.

I'm sure the phantoms will be a great money-spinner; the product/price is right and they will clean up in the £1.5k - £5k market. This can only be good news for the company and for us expert owners.

It does feel a bit like we've been forgotten in the phantom hype, but I suspect that by the time Munich comes around, the expert line will get some tasty improvements.

So I'm feeling reasonably optimistic.

[Charlemagne]

Don't forget to mention that the Dialog will integrate Qobuz and Deezer streaming. If they will develop all features as promised the Dialog could become a very nice streaming bridge, also for the Expert range.

[NickB]

Had a look at the Spark screen controlling the Dialog at the Bristol show today. It does look like a very polished system. Being used on an iMac not on a mobile. Lots of info and clear and easy to read. Obviously it was controlling Qobuz !!!

[philoouu]

I would be really interested to hear how it sounds in surround (4 or 5 phantoms) and how it could be integrated later through Dialog box with the expert line to make a surround system (expert for the 2.0 and phantoms for the rest). This would transform a 2.0 system in a very nice surround system within the same technology.


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