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"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation
Hi all, the Telegärtner M12 Gold has been here for a few days.  Big Grin

Overall very impressive indeed although I am yet to conduct proper A/B testing with the SOtM. I hope to have a bit of time over the next few days and will report back.

What I should point out thus far however is that I have now settled with one media converter between router and first switch (SOtM). For some reason with 2 media converters (creating the bridge) and feeding my Draytek switch which in turn fed the SOtM (x2) via a 20M run of AQ Carbon ethernet cable resulted in a sound that whilst initially quite impressive I found a little too airy and not focussed enough, resulting in reduced enjoyment and some head scratching on my part.

Now I don't know much about these things but I wondered if in that setup the bridge wasn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul".

In the current setup I have therefore made 2 big changes: one is replacing the Draytek with one of the SOtM switches, and removing one media converter from the equation. As a result I can't be sure why I prefer what I now hear, there are just too many variables. But this is clearly better than having an optical bridge feeding into the Draytek which in turn feeds 2 bridged SOtMs. 

To properly A/B the Telegärtner and SOtM switches I will need to reinsert the Draytek, remove the bridge.... essentially simplify everything back down. 

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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(16-Jun-2019, 14:20)GuillaumeB Wrote: Hi all, the Telegärtner M12 Gold has been here for a few days.  Big Grin

Overall very impressive indeed although I am yet to conduct proper A/B testing with the SOtM. I hope to have a bit of time over the next few days and will report back.

What I should point out thus far however is that I have now settled with one media converter between router and first switch (SOtM). For some reason with 2 media converters (creating the bridge) and feeding my Draytek switch which in turn fed the SOtM (x2) via a 20M run of AQ Carbon ethernet cable resulted in a sound that whilst initially quite impressive I found a little too airy and not focussed enough, resulting in reduced enjoyment and some head scratching on my part.

Now I don't know much about these things but I wondered if in that setup the bridge wasn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul".

In the current setup I have therefore made 2 big changes: one is replacing the Draytek with one of the SOtM switches, and removing one media converter from the equation. As a result I can't be sure why I prefer what I now hear, there are just too many variables. But this is clearly better than having an optical bridge feeding into the Draytek which in turn feeds 2 bridged SOtMs. 

To properly A/B the Telegärtner and SOtM switches I will need to reinsert the Draytek, remove the bridge.... essentially simplify everything back down. 

Guillaume
I am a little puzzled as to why you want to run two media converters to create a "bridge", is it not the case that both the Draytek and SOtM switches have SFP ports?  So I would have thought it best to convert to fibre once, and then use the SFP in one of the switches.  Maybe you are just experimenting?  It looks like you are getting interesting results in any case. Shy

Whilst on the subject of FMC's, have you looked at the new Sonore opticalModule, it might be a nice choice for the "first change to fibre"?

https://www.sonore.us/opticalModule.html
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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(16-Jun-2019, 16:03)Confused Wrote:
(16-Jun-2019, 14:20)GuillaumeB Wrote: Hi all, the Telegärtner M12 Gold has been here for a few days.  Big Grin

Overall very impressive indeed although I am yet to conduct proper A/B testing with the SOtM. I hope to have a bit of time over the next few days and will report back.

What I should point out thus far however is that I have now settled with one media converter between router and first switch (SOtM). For some reason with 2 media converters (creating the bridge) and feeding my Draytek switch which in turn fed the SOtM (x2) via a 20M run of AQ Carbon ethernet cable resulted in a sound that whilst initially quite impressive I found a little too airy and not focussed enough, resulting in reduced enjoyment and some head scratching on my part.

Now I don't know much about these things but I wondered if in that setup the bridge wasn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul".

In the current setup I have therefore made 2 big changes: one is replacing the Draytek with one of the SOtM switches, and removing one media converter from the equation. As a result I can't be sure why I prefer what I now hear, there are just too many variables. But this is clearly better than having an optical bridge feeding into the Draytek which in turn feeds 2 bridged SOtMs. 

To properly A/B the Telegärtner and SOtM switches I will need to reinsert the Draytek, remove the bridge.... essentially simplify everything back down. 

Guillaume
I am a little puzzled as to why you want to run two media converters to create a "bridge", is it not the case that both the Draytek and SOtM switches have SFP ports?  So I would have thought it best to convert to fibre once, and then use the SFP in one of the switches.  Maybe you are just experimenting?  It looks like you are getting interesting results in any case. Shy

Whilst on the subject of FMC's, have you looked at the new Sonore opticalModule, it might be a nice choice for the "first change to fibre"?

https://www.sonore.us/opticalModule.html

The Draytek has no SFP ports. Yes the Sonore looks interesting!

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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Yesterday I had an unresolved discussion with the Sonore guy on Roon, where he was promoting his optical set-up. An optical based streaming system is a very good idea for computer types, and he said he is making an optical output module to be fitted inside SoniucOrbiter servers. My interest was only focused on the merits, if any, of his media converter against the mass market ones in a bridge set-up. Is there more to be gained from the converter or the power supplying it? I understood converters were very simple devices. My bridge is between router and Innuos server, which then feeds Devialet. The bridge is currently a 240v Cisco 3560 switch feeding a TPLink powered by a SOTM 9v battery. I've just spent £20 on another TPLink converter to replace the Cisco. The SOTM 9v will power both, so only needed £5 for a 9v splitter. Someone else can spend £270 to try the Sonore converter. Sonore haven't yet re-engineered the SFP module, they sell TPLink ones on their site.

Main recent change is whole system powered by Shunyata from a UK6.
250 Pro CI; Innuos Zen Mk3; Claro dual turntable (Expert Stylus Denon + OL Aladdin Mk2); RCM Sensor2; Wilson Sabrina; OePhi speaker cables; Puritan PM156 conditioner and Ultimate cables.
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@ssfas see this post for the views of the creator of the OpticalModule. Smile

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic...ent=963599
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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(18-Jun-2019, 12:37)Antoine Wrote: @ssfas see this post for the views of the creator of the OpticalModule. Smile

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic...ent=963599

I always appreciate John‘s posts.
Kii Three Speakers | JL Audio Fathom Subwoofer  | KEF LS50 Speakers | Samsung 850 Soundbar
Innuos Statement | Trinnov Altitude 32 | PS Audio Stellar S300 Amp | T+A HA 200 Headphone Amplifier | Meze Empyrean Headphones
Sean Jacobs DC-3 Custom Build LPS | Roon Core DIY Server | SOtM sNH-10G Modded Switch | Oppo UDP-205 Blu-Ray/SACD Player
T+A G 2000 R Turntable | DS Audio E1 Optical Stylus | Gordian Lab 12 Power Conditioner | Artesania Audio Rack
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(18-Jun-2019, 13:42)baconbrain Wrote:
(18-Jun-2019, 12:37)Antoine Wrote: @ssfas see this post for the views of the creator of the OpticalModule. Smile

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic...ent=963599


I always appreciate John‘s posts.

Me too! They’re very informative and often make a lot of sense. Smile
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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(19-Jun-2019, 10:18)Antoine Wrote:
(18-Jun-2019, 13:42)baconbrain Wrote:
(18-Jun-2019, 12:37)Antoine Wrote: @ssfas see this post for the views of the creator of the OpticalModule. Smile

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic...ent=963599


I always appreciate John‘s posts.

Me too! They’re very informative and often make a lot of sense. Smile

It's another JS +1 from me.  The link above is for the same post that I linked to in the "clocking" thread.  I think it good that Antoine has provided a link here too, it is very much on topic in this thread.  In fact, I think it offers a possible explanation for Guillaume's "cognitive dissonance" experience when adding FMC's and an optical bridge.  Impossible to prove of course, but it does seem possible to me.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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I've followed John's findings and posts since the slimdevices time. He has always been very interesting to read, but he is even better now when audio design is his full time occupation!
*
Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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(19-Jun-2019, 12:49)Confused Wrote:
(19-Jun-2019, 10:18)Antoine Wrote:
(18-Jun-2019, 13:42)baconbrain Wrote: I always appreciate John‘s posts.

Me too! They’re very informative and often make a lot of sense. Smile

It's another JS +1 from me.  The link above is for the same post that I linked to in the "clocking" thread.  I think it good that Antoine has provided a link here too, it is very much on topic in this thread.  In fact, I think it offers a possible explanation for Guillaume's "cognitive dissonance" experience when adding FMC's and an optical bridge.  Impossible to prove of course, but it does seem possible to me.
Thanks. I read that. I think I’ve got power sorted. Both my tplink converters are powered by a single battery, so mains noise is not an issue. The Zen mk3 server has lps and Shunyata, next stop is Devialet.

So the linked article talks about noise from poor reclocking. When arguing with the Sonore guy elsewhere he said, and I quote:

You keep talking about “reclocking”. Let’s be clear we are not reclocking anything. These devices have oscillators in them because they are required for proper operation. All the gear you own has oscillators in them for one reason or another, but don’t intermingle them. A DAC might reclock after the USB receiver or Ethernet receiver to reduce their inherent jitter even though both processes might be asynchronous. The audio oscillators in your DAC are different than the data oscillators in network gear and computers and perform different tasks all together. The femto Aries appears to have femto oscillators on the audio outputs. This has nothing to do with this conversation.

The reason for systemOptique is simply to pair compatible network gear with our hardware. With so much network diversity on the market we needed to assure compatibility for our customers. Our optical products each come with an SFP module. The optical modules you are referring to are extra units for those who need them. There is no irony in any of this.

So this designer John S is going on about reclocking and the owner says there is no reclocking. I’m confused!

Current boxes - SOTM powering two tplink converters.


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250 Pro CI; Innuos Zen Mk3; Claro dual turntable (Expert Stylus Denon + OL Aladdin Mk2); RCM Sensor2; Wilson Sabrina; OePhi speaker cables; Puritan PM156 conditioner and Ultimate cables.
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