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Devialet and Tube Phono Stages?
#1
Hi Everyone,

We've all been pretty active lately in trying to resolve the "hiss" issue and it's great that Devialet has been actively working with us.

In the meantime, I am hearing the siren song of tube amplification and I'm considering getting a tube-based phono pre-amp to use with my Expert Pro 1000.

Has anyone tried using an external tube-based phono stage? If so, what did you think? Did it make a huge difference?

Thanks all, and looking forward to hearing what your experience has been!
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#2
(07-Oct-2019, 23:45)Dev_Steve Wrote: Hi Everyone,

We've all been pretty active lately in trying to resolve the "hiss" issue and it's great that Devialet has been actively working with us.

In the meantime, I am hearing the siren song of tube amplification and I'm considering getting a tube-based phono pre-amp to use with my Expert Pro 1000.

Has anyone tried using an external tube-based phono stage? If so, what did you think? Did it make a huge difference?

Thanks all, and looking forward to hearing what your experience has been!
Because of the hiss issue, I use an external phonostage, in my case being a Longdog Audio MCJ3. One of the reasons for my choice here is that I have known the designer, Nick Gorham for a long time and all the demonstrations of it I listened to, I was completely struck by it’s very fluid reproduction coupled with the ability to be totally revealing, particularly of micro-detail and nuances of sound. For me, the sound is most authentic and comfortably listenable for hours. 

The Longdog Audio MCJ3 Phonostage is not a pure valve amplifier. It is a hybrid, being a Jfet based amplifier gain stage, but with a valve based output stage. IMO, Nick Gorham has got this design just right. No other phonostage I have listened to has the same level of resolution coupled with quiet (considering valves are used) operation. I have recently demonstrated this phonostage to friends both in my system and in one of their systems. Being friends, we are all familiar with each other’s systems. Everyone reacted very positively to the MCJ3 probably leading to three new orders being sent to Longdog. One has certainly already gone in. All my friends have systems that can be readily classified as ‘high end’ sound wise.

Sorry, this reply has become what might appear to be a bit of a shill. It is not intended in that way and certainly there is no benefit to me personally. I am genuinely simply trying to share my personal experience and belief about an individual piece of kit that I now absolutely love coupled to my D250 Pro C/I.

More info here. http://www.longdogaudio.com/project/mcj3...ono-stage/
Roon (lifetime) using qobuz with Devialet Air (I don’t like the sound of RAAT), Intel nuc, Synology NAS. Denon DP-80 turntable in bespoke CLD plinth, Audiomods Micrometer Series 6 10.5” (carbon fibre) arm with continuous silver wiring loom, Hana ML moving coil cartridge, Longdog Audio MCJ3 Phono stage. Both into Devialet 250 Pro C/I. World Audio Design (DIY) KLS3 MkIII speakers with upgraded crossover and SEAS T25CF002 Millennium tweeters. Ethernet streaming. Interconnects are home made with IPL Acoustics IC2 cable. Speaker cable is Blue Jeans (Belden 5000) 10 gauge 5T00UP.
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#3
(08-Oct-2019, 19:48)Greg Wrote:
(07-Oct-2019, 23:45)Dev_Steve Wrote: Hi Everyone,

We've all been pretty active lately in trying to resolve the "hiss" issue and it's great that Devialet has been actively working with us.

In the meantime, I am hearing the siren song of tube amplification and I'm considering getting a tube-based phono pre-amp to use with my Expert Pro 1000.

Has anyone tried using an external tube-based phono stage? If so, what did you think? Did it make a huge difference?

Thanks all, and looking forward to hearing what your experience has been!
Because of the hiss issue, I use an external phonostage, in my case being a Longdog Audio MCJ3. One of the reasons for my choice here is that I have known the designer, Nick Gorham for a long time and all the demonstrations of it I listened to, I was completely struck by it’s very fluid reproduction coupled with the ability to be totally revealing, particularly of micro-detail and nuances of sound. For me, the sound is most authentic and comfortably listenable for hours. 

The Longdog Audio MCJ3 Phonostage is not a pure valve amplifier. It is a hybrid, being a Jfet based amplifier gain stage, but with a valve based output stage. IMO, Nick Gorham has got this design just right. No other phonostage I have listened to has the same level of resolution coupled with quiet (considering valves are used) operation. I have recently demonstrated this phonostage to friends both in my system and in one of their systems. Being friends, we are all familiar with each other’s systems. Everyone reacted very positively to the MCJ3 probably leading to three new orders being sent to Longdog. One has certainly already gone in. All my friends have systems that can be readily classified as ‘high end’ sound wise.

Sorry, this reply has become what might appear to be a bit of a shill. It is not intended in that way and certainly there is no benefit to me personally. I am genuinely simply trying to share my personal experience and belief about an individual piece of kit that I now absolutely love coupled to my D250 Pro C/I.

More info here. http://www.longdogaudio.com/project/mcj3...ono-stage/

did you find it was a substantial sound improvement outside of resolving the hiss issue?
Reply
#4
(08-Oct-2019, 21:11)The Dev_Steve Wrote:
(08-Oct-2019, 19:48)Greg Wrote:
(07-Oct-2019, 23:45)Dev_Steve Wrote: Hi Everyone,

We've all been pretty active lately in trying to resolve the "hiss" issue and it's great that Devialet has been actively working with us.

In the meantime, I am hearing the siren song of tube amplification and I'm considering getting a tube-based phono pre-amp to use with my Expert Pro 1000.

Has anyone tried using an external tube-based phono stage? If so, what did you think? Did it make a huge difference?

Thanks all, and looking forward to hearing what your experience has been!
Because of the hiss issue, I use an external phonostage, in my case being a Longdog Audio MCJ3. One of the reasons for my choice here is that I have known the designer, Nick Gorham for a long time and all the demonstrations of it I listened to, I was completely struck by it’s very fluid reproduction coupled with the ability to be totally revealing, particularly of micro-detail and nuances of sound. For me, the sound is most authentic and comfortably listenable for hours. 

The Longdog Audio MCJ3 Phonostage is not a pure valve amplifier. It is a hybrid, being a Jfet based amplifier gain stage, but with a valve based output stage. IMO, Nick Gorham has got this design just right. No other phonostage I have listened to has the same level of resolution coupled with quiet (considering valves are used) operation. I have recently demonstrated this phonostage to friends both in my system and in one of their systems. Being friends, we are all familiar with each other’s systems. Everyone reacted very positively to the MCJ3 probably leading to three new orders being sent to Longdog. One has certainly already gone in. All my friends have systems that can be readily classified as ‘high end’ sound wise.

Sorry, this reply has become what might appear to be a bit of a shill. It is not intended in that way and certainly there is no benefit to me personally. I am genuinely simply trying to share my personal experience and belief about an individual piece of kit that I now absolutely love coupled to my D250 Pro C/I.

More info here. http://www.longdogaudio.com/project/mcj3...ono-stage/

did you find it was a substantial sound improvement outside of resolving the hiss issue?
That is a great question. Without doubt, if you disregard the hiss, the Devialet phonostage is extremely dynamic and listenable. It doesn’t have the fine detail the Longdog reveals, but the dynamics and sound energy are certainly beguiling. I have no doubt that if I had not suffered the hiss issue, I would have happily settled with the Devialet. Of course the hiss issue has done me a service because I have now sorted out a better stage in consequence. I should also add that the recent acquisition of a Hana ML cartridge has had a significant influence with preference going to the Longdog.
Roon (lifetime) using qobuz with Devialet Air (I don’t like the sound of RAAT), Intel nuc, Synology NAS. Denon DP-80 turntable in bespoke CLD plinth, Audiomods Micrometer Series 6 10.5” (carbon fibre) arm with continuous silver wiring loom, Hana ML moving coil cartridge, Longdog Audio MCJ3 Phono stage. Both into Devialet 250 Pro C/I. World Audio Design (DIY) KLS3 MkIII speakers with upgraded crossover and SEAS T25CF002 Millennium tweeters. Ethernet streaming. Interconnects are home made with IPL Acoustics IC2 cable. Speaker cable is Blue Jeans (Belden 5000) 10 gauge 5T00UP.
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#5
I was reading the July issue of Hifi news and record review at the weekend.  One thing that caught my eye, and made me think of this thread, was a review of the Pro-ject Tube Box DS2.  (Ken Kessler)

It received a "Sound Quality" score of 86%, which is quite high for HFN.  (the O'dA got 90%, for example)  The review was very positive, the summary as follows:

Here the verdict is fait accompli as I have been using the Tube Box DS2 for over a year as my budget reference phono amp.  It was enough that it handles two decks, has two outputs, and has adjustable loading to match any cartridge to cross my path.  Above all though, it is the sublime valve-y sound: it's an absolute knock-out, even proving itself in an uber-high-end £100k system with a £10k MC.  This is killer.

So, for those tempted to try the weird and wonderful world of tubes with a Devialet, it might be worth considering, and it looks a bit of a bargain at £549.  (I know someone who has just spent a little more than this on a new cable for his TT)

One thing that did concern me a little was a comment in the measurements section  The A-weighted S/N ratio depends on the gain setting and varies from 87.2 dB for MM down to 62.7 dB for MC, which is not great.  Definitely a try before you buy product I would say.

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/products/Tube-Box-DS2

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/_Assets/_m...2_July.pdf
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo - tX-USBultra - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#6
(07-Oct-2019, 23:45)Dev_Steve Wrote: Hi Everyone,

We've all been pretty active lately in trying to resolve the "hiss" issue and it's great that Devialet has been actively working with us.

In the meantime, I am hearing the siren song of tube amplification and I'm considering getting a tube-based phono pre-amp to use with my Expert Pro 1000.

Has anyone tried using an external tube-based phono stage? If so, what did you think? Did it make a huge difference?

Thanks all, and looking forward to hearing what your experience has been!

Even if this thread is about phono stages it should be mentioned that a good step-up transformer and a  MC catridge will also get rid of the noise. You'd get to use the Devialet phono stage - provided you like the sound from it.... The late Art Dudley of Stereophile wrote about a very good SUT here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/list...ransformer
*
Devialetless!
Roon, Core on NUC with Debian/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/Pi4+RoPieeeXL/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#7
(08-Oct-2019, 22:16)Greg Wrote:
(08-Oct-2019, 21:11)The Dev_Steve Wrote:
(08-Oct-2019, 19:48)Greg Wrote: Because of the hiss issue, I use an external phonostage, in my case being a Longdog Audio MCJ3. One of the reasons for my choice here is that I have known the designer, Nick Gorham for a long time and all the demonstrations of it I listened to, I was completely struck by it’s very fluid reproduction coupled with the ability to be totally revealing, particularly of micro-detail and nuances of sound. For me, the sound is most authentic and comfortably listenable for hours. 

The Longdog Audio MCJ3 Phonostage is not a pure valve amplifier. It is a hybrid, being a Jfet based amplifier gain stage, but with a valve based output stage. IMO, Nick Gorham has got this design just right. No other phonostage I have listened to has the same level of resolution coupled with quiet (considering valves are used) operation. I have recently demonstrated this phonostage to friends both in my system and in one of their systems. Being friends, we are all familiar with each other’s systems. Everyone reacted very positively to the MCJ3 probably leading to three new orders being sent to Longdog. One has certainly already gone in. All my friends have systems that can be readily classified as ‘high end’ sound wise.

Sorry, this reply has become what might appear to be a bit of a shill. It is not intended in that way and certainly there is no benefit to me personally. I am genuinely simply trying to share my personal experience and belief about an individual piece of kit that I now absolutely love coupled to my D250 Pro C/I.

More info here. http://www.longdogaudio.com/project/mcj3...ono-stage/

did you find it was a substantial sound improvement outside of resolving the hiss issue?
That is a great question. Without doubt, if you disregard the hiss, the Devialet phonostage is extremely dynamic and listenable. It doesn’t have the fine detail the Longdog reveals, but the dynamics and sound energy are certainly beguiling. I have no doubt that if I had not suffered the hiss issue, I would have happily settled with the Devialet. Of course the hiss issue has done me a service because I have now sorted out a better stage in consequence. I should also add that the recent acquisition of a Hana ML cartridge has had a significant influence with preference going to the Longdog.

I have been testing a Musical Fidelity NU Vista Pro Vinyl, having a few issues and I believe it’s the Devialet causing the problem, it’s causing a helicopter type sound in the speakers, the unit has been tested on other equipment with no issues whatsoever.

I’ve kind of given up on Devialet support as they never want to resolve or fix any issues, only pass the buck and say it’s something they’re looking into.

For example the software has not been updated since 2017 and now it’s not comparable with the latest Mac OSX, what does they tell you about Devialet providing good after sales support....
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#8
(06-Aug-2020, 08:52)Musicmanlv Wrote:
(08-Oct-2019, 22:16)Greg Wrote:
(08-Oct-2019, 21:11)The Dev_Steve Wrote: did you find it was a substantial sound improvement outside of resolving the hiss issue?
That is a great question. Without doubt, if you disregard the hiss, the Devialet phonostage is extremely dynamic and listenable. It doesn’t have the fine detail the Longdog reveals, but the dynamics and sound energy are certainly beguiling. I have no doubt that if I had not suffered the hiss issue, I would have happily settled with the Devialet. Of course the hiss issue has done me a service because I have now sorted out a better stage in consequence. I should also add that the recent acquisition of a Hana ML cartridge has had a significant influence with preference going to the Longdog.

I have been testing a Musical Fidelity NU Vista Pro Vinyl, having a few issues and I believe it’s the Devialet causing the problem, it’s causing a helicopter type sound in the speakers, the unit has been tested on other equipment with no issues whatsoever.

I’ve kind of given up on Devialet support as they never want to resolve or fix any issues, only pass the buck and say it’s something they’re looking into.

For example the software has not been updated since 2017 and now it’s not comparable with the latest Mac OSX, what does they tell you about Devialet providing good after sales support....

You need to turn Auto Wifi Standby to ON. It is OFF by default and is known to cause interference. 
   
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#9
I am using a Kiseki Purple Heart, and are not experiencing hiss. I love the Devialet stage with this cart. I am surprised to learn of the hiss issue with so many users.
220 Pro/CI, Rega RP8/Apheta 2, NAS/Roon, Furutech e-TP86 power distributor, Audoquest NRG10, Furutech Flux-50 filter, Furutect Powerflux, Furutech Speakerflux, Sonus Faber Stradivari. 
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