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Devialet in a state of chaos
#21
You have to consider that corporate communication has to be destinguished between talking to customers about problems and how to fix it and future functionality. The latter can only be done with legal desclaimers each and everytime such planed functionality is named, at least when you are a listed company on the stock market.
Stock market laws demand such a behaviour to ensure that investors get a chance to know such relevant information for their decisions.
It s also a good behaviour if you are a private company in a way of a healthy expectation management, not to make lots of promises which you might not fulfill in time.
For me this discussion is equal to discussion in e.g. Apple forums about what apple will invent in the future. Apple is very strict with their communication policy for the above mentioned reasons and also to prevent competitors to be faster in the market as most of you surely know. So why should a small company like DEVIALET act different?

In case of support for problems, we have to keep this in mind when answers are not fulfilling our expectations here.


Cheers,

Krisp
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#22
Krisp - What you say makes a lot of sense. We do indeed need to distinguish between talking to customers about problems and how to fix it and future functionality, this leads us to the thorny subject of AIR A few of us on this forum have assisted Devialet with feedback relating to the two beta versions of AIR. In some cases providing Devialet with specific information, screenshots of PC process etc. Tis is information that was requested by Devialet. In return, we get zero feedback, nothing. Well, nothing except "our engineers are working very hard to resolve this issue." Per your very logical distinction, this falls within the criteria of fixing a current problem. We should remember that AIR is not an upgrade add on, but a feature that at one time was sold as a £1000 option. I think the complete silence from Devialet on this subject is totally unacceptable.

I think the Dialog issue is similar to AIR. Devialet started selling the things stating that they would be compatible with the expert range, they continued selling them saying compatibility with the expert range would happen in March (and so on, and on and on). Now they refuse to state what they have planned. Not good enough

As to Devialet responding to requests for new features, or a desire for Devialet to pre-announce what is coming next, I completely agree with you.
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#23
Exactly.

I for one would be delighted if Devialet were to announce "There will be no new developments, until we fix what we've already released". Even better if they then provided a concrete schedule, and actually stuck to it. In reality there is probably no chance of either of those events happening.

(I feel better for venting a bit, anyway.)
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#24
Let's have a look at the controls :
1. The remote is beautiful, but has no screen built into it. More or less useless from 2 meter distance from the amplifier
2. The RS232-interface is not updated since the initial release. No possibility to use recent features. They simply drop functionality that allowed their partners to make same money.
3. The Air client ! No need to recap everything so ooeopjust one question : is it not possible to embed the on/off command please ?
4. The apps : shameful.

For each point have I launched a support ticket. Result : none.
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#25
(28-Oct-2015, 14:38)thumb5 Wrote: Exactly.

I for one would be delighted if Devialet were to announce "There will be no new developments, until we fix what we've already released".  Even better if they then provided a concrete schedule, and actually stuck to it.  In reality there is probably no chance of either of those events happening.

(I feel better for venting a bit, anyway.)

That is never going to happen as it makes them no money! Call me cynical Big Grin
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#26
(29-Oct-2015, 13:36)Womaz Wrote:
(28-Oct-2015, 14:38)thumb5 Wrote: Exactly.

I for one would be delighted if Devialet were to announce "There will be no new developments, until we fix what we've already released".  Even better if they then provided a concrete schedule, and actually stuck to it.  In reality there is probably no chance of either of those events happening.

(I feel better for venting a bit, anyway.)

That is never going to happen as it makes them no money! Call me cynical  Big Grin

I agree with thumb here.  Also, I think this would in fact be very good business.  For example, there have been a few people commenting in the Phantom threads recently that they were thinking of buying but decided not to after reading about the many issues posted on this forum.  In the same way, it can't be good for Devialet if potential purchasers of the "Expert" range visit this forum and read about the never ending saga of issues with AIR.  So there is a good argument that it is time for Devialet to take a deep breath, get all the current features on their existing products working correctly, and only then move on.
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#27
The inability to fix AIR has soured me on Devialet.
(Also does anyone understand why DSD is so quiet?)
SYSTEM 1:Grimm MU-1 running Roon Server & Ready//Grimm TPM//GRIMM LS1be
SYSTEM 2: Antipodes DX Roon Server// MiniDSP// Grimm TPM// Dutch & Dutch 8C

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#28
(29-Oct-2015, 13:52)Confused Wrote: .....there have been a few people commenting in the Phantom threads recently that they were thinking of buying but decided not to after reading about the many issues posted on this forum.  In the same way, it can't be good for Devialet if potential purchasers of the "Expert" range visit this forum and read about the never ending saga of issues with AIR......

I am probably one of those mentioned, as I've shied away from purchasing because of the well documented issues, particularly with the Phantom and Dialog.
If the product doesn't work reliably, out of the box and continue to work reliably, then Devialet's reputation will rapidly become a bad one.





     
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#29
(30-Oct-2015, 00:07)Felix Wrote: I am probably one of those mentioned, as I've shied away from purchasing because of the well documented issues, particularly with the Phantom and Dialog.
If the product doesn't work reliably, out of the box and continue to work reliably, then Devialet's reputation will rapidly become a bad one.

     

I think we agree that they build a fantastic sounding product. I think we also agree on the fact that network environments can be very tricky when it comes to 100% reliable real-time data processing with distributed systems (at least the IT people on this forum will agree on that).
At my home I can put my phantoms in many places and they work reliable. If the distance gets too far away from the dialog box the limitations of the network are audible.
At my friends home we tried the phantoms for several days and possibly because he has a power line network in place, we had problems with the start of playing tracks which are > 10 Min long and get some interrupts sometimes, although the distance between Phantoms and Dialog was < 6m.
The support suggested to install noise filters before the Phantoms or Dialog so the communication falls back to wireless transmission only, but we didn't tried that yet. Next time we try to test it with home power line network off.

This is just one example and from reading the other forum members problems here, I conclude for myself, that there are influences which are not within the control of DEVIALET and it is sad but true that beyond what is technical reasonably possible, DEVIALET can hardly be blamed for. They use a proprietary protocol, I think they should switch to an open standard with quality of service priorities. It is long time ago that I had to do with in depth network standards. QoS was just introduced so I can't judge whether this is reliable for RT-communications nowadays.


Cheers,

Krisp
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#30
(30-Oct-2015, 00:07)Felix Wrote:
(29-Oct-2015, 13:52)Confused Wrote: .....there have been a few people commenting in the Phantom threads recently that they were thinking of buying but decided not to after reading about the many issues posted on this forum.  In the same way, it can't be good for Devialet if potential purchasers of the "Expert" range visit this forum and read about the never ending saga of issues with AIR......

I am probably one of those mentioned, as I've shied away from purchasing because of the well documented issues, particularly with the Phantom and Dialog.
If the product doesn't work reliably, out of the box and continue to work reliably, then Devialet's reputation will rapidly become a bad one.





     

You're forgetting that for a lot of people everything went right "out of the box". People experiencing problems are rather likely to use this forum to fix issues, but some happy customers would never register here. So opinions are quite biased here, due to the purpose itself of the forum. I would not rely solely on it, but get the trial and make my mind. I don't understand this forum as an "audiophile review" making buying recommendations but as an exchange of various experiences.

Audio beeing more and more "computized" (welcome in the digital world), I guess an alway bigger part of the "business" goes in the hands of software programmers, app developers etc.
We are used to the fact that updates from iOS, MacOS, Android, Windows etc. bring sometimes more problems that they solved (at least as experienced in my 20 years computer life) and they are the specialists! So I bet unless you stick to the good old analog way, we're doomed to experience bugs here and there, as the software side develops. Seemly does Sonos f.e. a better job than Devialet here, but then again the hard side is by Devialet brighter.
Sorry, can't really see the "state of chaos" discussed here.
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