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Devialet state ‘no further development’ for ‘classic’ (pre Pro CI) Expert line.
#11
I think this is a tail of expectations.  I bought an Expert at full retail price in 2013.  (the UK distributor at the time had a zero discount policy)  I had bought the amp because it seamed to offer the best sound quality for the money.  I had read the Evo stuff on Devialet's website, but this was not a factor in my decision to buy.  I was buying an amplifier, so my primary purpose for buying it was for it to power my speakers and make music, I figured that new features might be nice, I also figured that new features might be useless to me.  So, the decision to buy was justified by the performance and features offered at the time of sale, and anything else would be a bonus.  Plus, a bit like @Soniclife above, I had read Devialet's website and dismissed a lot of it as marketing spin, I did not read anything as a promise.  I certainly did not expect immunity from obsolescence or updates for life.  I would have been more than happy with a few updates over maybe five years.  As it happened, the Pro came out within five years, and it looks like that was almost an accident following the Od'A project.

As things turned out, I was very pleased to get SAM, I still use it and consider it a bonus to this day.  Very many were pleased with the power hike that came along too.  I was a bit miffed for a while when it looked like the Phantom project was getting all the attention, but then less miffed when it turned out that SAM was a spin off from the Phantom project.

So I bought with almost zero expectations regarding the updates, and have actually been quite pleased by SAM RAM and so on.  What DID annoy me was that AIR, which was stable in the D-Premier days (and my early Expert days) was updated and became the disaster that it was, I'm sure a few of us will recall the horror of a "white noise" moment.  So that is my one big Expert era negative, not that some apparent marketing hoopla on their website turned out not to be a solemn promise of lifetime updates, but that one of the advertised features at the time of purchase was revised and then did not work properly, one upgrade I could happily have done without.  To add insult to injury here, Devialet's communication regarding the AIR issues was woeful, another big negative.  

Looking forward, Devialet are now publicly stating that in the past they had "over promised and under delivered".  So lets take a look at what they are promising right now:

Expert Pro systems are fitted with our EVO platform, a truly unique electronic architecture designed to help you stay on top of your game with regular software updates. Receive the latest free features and upgrades. First-class performance. Always.


Let's fight programmed obsolescence.


Expert Pro systems are engineered to remain at the forefront of technology. Today and always.


EVO electronic architecture is driven by permanently upgradable software.

Oh dear ....

But, and for the record, I do not take the above as a literal promise, I do not expect my Pro to stay at the forefront of technology today and always.  If Devialet do plan to start under-promising but delivering, they need to have an urgent look at some of the utter nonsense that still pollutes it's website to this day.  

As it happens, I managed to get quite a bit of listening time in last weekend and the 1000 Pro was sounding sensational, which is why I bought it.  Does the above stuff in their website annoy me?  Not in the slightest, in fact I find it quite amusing.  Although I think that if I worked for Devialet, I would find the website rather embarrassing, which might be why I find it a little amusing.  What is the French for schadenfrude?
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo - tX-USBultra - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#12
(16-Jul-2018, 18:35)Confused Wrote: I think this is a tail of expectations.  I bought an Expert at full retail price in 2013.  (the UK distributor at the time had a zero discount policy)  I had bought the amp because it seamed to offer the best sound quality for the money.  I had read the Evo stuff on Devialet's website, but this was not a factor in my decision to buy.  I was buying an amplifier, so my primary purpose for buying it was for it to power my speakers and make music, I figured that new features might be nice, I also figured that new features might be useless to me.  So, the decision to buy was justified by the performance and features offered at the time of sale, and anything else would be a bonus.  Plus, a bit like @Soniclife above, I had read Devialet's website and dismissed a lot of it as marketing spin, I did not read anything as a promise.  I certainly did not expect immunity from obsolescence or updates for life.  I would have been more than happy with a few updates over maybe five years.  As it happened, the Pro came out within five years, and it looks like that was almost an accident following the Od'A project.

As things turned out, I was very pleased to get SAM, I still use it and consider it a bonus to this day.  Very many were pleased with the power hike that came along too.  I was a bit miffed for a while when it looked like the Phantom project was getting all the attention, but then less miffed when it turned out that SAM was a spin off from the Phantom project.

So I bought with almost zero expectations regarding the updates, and have actually been quite pleased by SAM RAM and so on.  What DID annoy me was that AIR, which was stable in the D-Premier days (and my early Expert days) was updated and became the disaster that it was, I'm sure a few of us will recall the horror of a "white noise" moment.  So that is my one big Expert era negative, not that some apparent marketing hoopla on their website turned out not to be a solemn promise of lifetime updates, but that one of the advertised features at the time of purchase was revised and then did not work properly, one upgrade I could happily have done without.  To add insult to injury here, Devialet's communication regarding the AIR issues was woeful, another big negative.  

Looking forward, Devialet are now publicly stating that in the past they had "over promised and under delivered".  So lets take a look at what they are promising right now:

Expert Pro systems are fitted with our EVO platform, a truly unique electronic architecture designed to help you stay on top of your game with regular software updates. Receive the latest free features and upgrades. First-class performance. Always.


Let's fight programmed obsolescence.


Expert Pro systems are engineered to remain at the forefront of technology. Today and always.


EVO electronic architecture is driven by permanently upgradable software.

Oh dear ....

But, and for the record, I do not take the above as a literal promise, I do not expect my Pro to stay at the forefront of technology today and always.  If Devialet do plan to start under-promising but delivering, they need to have an urgent look at some of the utter nonsense that still pollutes it's website to this day.  

As it happens, I managed to get quite a bit of listening time in last weekend and the 1000 Pro was sounding sensational, which is why I bought it.  Does the above stuff in their website annoy me?  Not in the slightest, in fact I find it quite amusing.  Although I think that if I worked for Devialet, I would find the website rather embarrassing, which might be why I find it a little amusing.  What is the French for schadenfrude?

To be fair to the Devialet guys at Oxford they did say they had started to clean up the exaggerated rubbish on the website but had not finished yet and were hoping to sort out the 'Sales oriented' wording soon.
UK kit - Technics SP10 - Technics EPA-501  - AT33SA - NUC5i3 - W10 - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet 1000 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable (0.5 metre each side) - Magico S5

Spain kit - NUC7i5 - W10  - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet D250 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable - Ergo IX speakers
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#13
(16-Jul-2018, 19:47)NickB Wrote:
(16-Jul-2018, 18:35)Confused Wrote: I think this is a tail of expectations.  I bought an Expert at full retail price in 2013.  (the UK distributor at the time had a zero discount policy)  I had bought the amp because it seamed to offer the best sound quality for the money.  I had read the Evo stuff on Devialet's website, but this was not a factor in my decision to buy.  I was buying an amplifier, so my primary purpose for buying it was for it to power my speakers and make music, I figured that new features might be nice, I also figured that new features might be useless to me.  So, the decision to buy was justified by the performance and features offered at the time of sale, and anything else would be a bonus.  Plus, a bit like @Soniclife above, I had read Devialet's website and dismissed a lot of it as marketing spin, I did not read anything as a promise.  I certainly did not expect immunity from obsolescence or updates for life.  I would have been more than happy with a few updates over maybe five years.  As it happened, the Pro came out within five years, and it looks like that was almost an accident following the Od'A project.

As things turned out, I was very pleased to get SAM, I still use it and consider it a bonus to this day.  Very many were pleased with the power hike that came along too.  I was a bit miffed for a while when it looked like the Phantom project was getting all the attention, but then less miffed when it turned out that SAM was a spin off from the Phantom project.

So I bought with almost zero expectations regarding the updates, and have actually been quite pleased by SAM RAM and so on.  What DID annoy me was that AIR, which was stable in the D-Premier days (and my early Expert days) was updated and became the disaster that it was, I'm sure a few of us will recall the horror of a "white noise" moment.  So that is my one big Expert era negative, not that some apparent marketing hoopla on their website turned out not to be a solemn promise of lifetime updates, but that one of the advertised features at the time of purchase was revised and then did not work properly, one upgrade I could happily have done without.  To add insult to injury here, Devialet's communication regarding the AIR issues was woeful, another big negative.  

Looking forward, Devialet are now publicly stating that in the past they had "over promised and under delivered".  So lets take a look at what they are promising right now:

Expert Pro systems are fitted with our EVO platform, a truly unique electronic architecture designed to help you stay on top of your game with regular software updates. Receive the latest free features and upgrades. First-class performance. Always.


Let's fight programmed obsolescence.


Expert Pro systems are engineered to remain at the forefront of technology. Today and always.


EVO electronic architecture is driven by permanently upgradable software.

Oh dear ....

But, and for the record, I do not take the above as a literal promise, I do not expect my Pro to stay at the forefront of technology today and always.  If Devialet do plan to start under-promising but delivering, they need to have an urgent look at some of the utter nonsense that still pollutes it's website to this day.  

As it happens, I managed to get quite a bit of listening time in last weekend and the 1000 Pro was sounding sensational, which is why I bought it.  Does the above stuff in their website annoy me?  Not in the slightest, in fact I find it quite amusing.  Although I think that if I worked for Devialet, I would find the website rather embarrassing, which might be why I find it a little amusing.  What is the French for schadenfrude?

To be fair to the Devialet guys at Oxford they did say they had started to clean up the exaggerated rubbish on the website but had not finished yet and were hoping to sort out the 'Sales oriented' wording soon.

The trouble is that with Devialet, it is always confiture demain.

Talk is cheap. I hope they now follow up with some actions, otherwise we are no further forward.
NUC i5/ROCK/Roon Lifetime =>  Original d'Atelier CoreInfinity #066 => Transparent MusicWave+ =>Wilson Sophia 3
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#14
"confiture demain" - wonderful!
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#15
(16-Jul-2018, 16:41)sam1000 Wrote: I think its great that Devialet provided us an option to upgrade our existing hardware. They even gave discount for the people who had bought the amp within last 12 months. There was also an option to upgrade 120 to 220pro without an extra charge.  I don't know of any other amp/integrated  manufacturer that does that.

 I brought mine not long after the expert pro announced, let’s see what upgrade path I have since mine still have a long warranty period.  Where did you get the information?

Kai
Devialet Expert 120 | SF Liuto Monitor | Nordost cables | Vancouver, Canada.
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#16
I followed the Core Infinity upgrade path despite my hesitation about the incremental cost Vs the residual resale value of my D440. The main reason was to keep up to date with the hardware platform for fear that they would eventually, may be years later, cease support of the un-upgraded unit, or offer some new features only to the latest and greatest upgraded units.

But I never anticipated them to pull their support so soon, considering the price of the units and the fact that the old units still had some bugs to be cleared out.

More importantly, one of the allure of the "Evo" platform was the upgradability when compared with traditional audio equipment.

Comparatively, the dCS Debussy which I bought almost 8 years ago nut no longer own, had been continuously upgraded with the following history:

2008: Max PCM rate 24/96 only
2011: Support for USB Class 2 up to 24/192. Requires hardware upgrade, $200 USD ONLY!!!!
2013: DSD64 /DoP support via USB, AES or Dual AES
Mid 2013: Same support in SPDIF as well
2018: 24/352.8, 24/384 and DSD/128 in DoP format, dCS-encrypted DSD/64 (from SACD transport)

More upcoming upgrades to come including MQA support.

All that over a period of almost decade, with only one hardware upgrade costing only US$200, hardly covering the hardware and handling cost. I even had a technician travelling to Hong Kong coming to my home, doing upgrades for multiple customers.

Comparatively, the Core Infinity upgrade cost seems more like another incremental revenue opportunity, if I recall correctly costing almost half the cost of a unit.

Also of note is dCS engineers participate in the forums directly and actively, and responds to forum and support tickets are typically within hours. Communication on upcoming updates has always been upfront and no BS.

All I can say is I will not have any hesitation to buy any new products from dCS, I will be a loyal customer forever. WRT Devialet, have to think about that one.
440 Pro, Linn Sondek LP12 Ittok, Phasemation PP-300/T-300, Vivid Pardo V1.5, Squeezebox Touch, Teddy Pardo PS, Mac Mini SSD, Roon

Viard Audio Silver HD S/PDIF cable, Viard Audio HD12 power cable, Supra CAT6 LAN cables, Audioquest Carbon USB cable
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#17
(17-Jul-2018, 02:15)Melville Wrote:
(16-Jul-2018, 16:41)sam1000 Wrote: I think its great that Devialet provided us an option to upgrade our existing hardware. They even gave discount for the people who had bought the amp within last 12 months. There was also an option to upgrade 120 to 220pro without an extra charge.  I don't know of any other amp/integrated  manufacturer that does that.

 I brought mine not long after the expert pro announced, let’s see what upgrade path I have since mine still have a long warranty period.  Where did you get the information?

Kai

Don't have the exact link, but it was mentioned a few times in the upgrade thread.
TAD Cr-1; Synology NAS/Roon->Trinnov Altitute-16->1000pro (AIR) ,
Oppo 203 -> Trinnov Altitude-16 ->1000pro (Digital In), 
Shunyata Denali 6000T
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#18
(16-Jul-2018, 14:44)Eddye Wrote: It's not totally surprising, but I think it would have been common courtesy to have released said statement during the last upgrade program. Perhaps then I would have made the choice to upgrade. I do hope the upgrade program will indeed reopen (and I'll be able to afford the upgrade...)

Hi Eddie - have you seen the price for an 800 to 1000 Pro?  £2K more than the original upgrade which I just couldn’t afford at the time as I had just bought a 250 Companion!
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#19
(06-Aug-2018, 12:45)Lincolnlad Wrote:
(16-Jul-2018, 14:44)Eddye Wrote: It's not totally surprising, but I think it would have been common courtesy to have released said statement during the last upgrade program. Perhaps then I would have made the choice to upgrade. I do hope the upgrade program will indeed reopen (and I'll be able to afford the upgrade...)

Hi Eddie - have you seen the price for an 800 to 1000 Pro?  £2K more than the original upgrade which I just couldn’t afford at the time as I had just bought a 250 Companion!
It should be remembered that when the Pro upgrade program started, Devialet included the Core Infinity board, worth at the time TTBOMK, £1750, as a free additional part, albeit to be fitted at a later date. The new inflated price no doubt reflects that the C/I board is no longer free.
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#20
Makes sense to me that they focus their R&D effort on the current platform.

I understand the frustration of Air users left with an imperfect solution pre CI though, even if USB works very well.

Cheers,
Bernard
PS Audio P10 - Mojo modded Mac mini (Illuminati V2 Power supply) running Roon connected through Air - music stored on 4TB external Samsung SSD connected through USB - Shunyata Sigma power cable - Devialet D250 Pro Core Infinity - Chord Sarum T speaker cables - Wilson Benesch Vector
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