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Does Devialet produce "alive" music?
#21
(05-Apr-2019, 20:37)dylanttt Wrote: I have a 400 and 3 months ago added a pair of Vincent SP-T800  mono blocks to the highs and mids and left the 400 to drive the lows. everything improved.

Thanks for the writing. What were you looking for, that made you to add monos?
Vandersteen 5A, d220 pro CI , Dyrholm Audio x series cables all the way, qnap 451+,Mac mini Audirvana, dedicated circuits. Moscow Russia
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#22
I am a Bowers & Wilkins 802 user since 1990. Prior to my buying their current 802-D3 in 2016, I had the Matrix 802 S2 and have had 14 different amplifiers in a span of 25 years ... some where Solid-state and some were tubes. In 2016, I bought the D400 along with my B&Ws. Last year, I have had the D400 updated to 440-Pro CI and thereafter added 2 x 220-Pro companions .. thus I have 4 x 440-Pro bi-amping my 802-D3s. 

I must say I have never been a happier person that I am today with my Devialets. They do everything I ever wanted from my system. Most prominently, the system actually vanishes leaving you with a 'room full of musicians doing their stuff' ... noise levels are non-existent and indeed - I feel like I am hearing it LIVE & in sonic nirvana !!  No regrets and am still looking at ways to improve my sound further but nothing in a hurry ...
Roon Nucleus w/ LPSU & AQ Z3 + Roon Air & iPad  >  AQ Diamond ETH | CEC TL0X CD Transport + AQ Z3 + 3 x Orea Indigo > AQ Diamond AES/EBU 
2 X Devialet 440-PRO CI >  3 x AQ Wild  RCA-XLR | 12 x Orea Bronze, 4 x SR Atmosphere PC | B&W 802 D3 {Bi-Amped}  >  AQ Redwood - HF & AQ Oak - LF
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#23
(06-Apr-2019, 04:27)Qaudio_engr Wrote: I am a Bowers & Wilkins 802 user since 1990. Prior to my buying their current 802-D3 in 2016, I had the Matrix 802 S2 and have had 14 different amplifiers in a span of 25 years ... some where Solid-state and some were tubes. In 2016, I bought the D400 along with my B&Ws. Last year, I have had the D400 updated to 440-Pro CI and thereafter added 2 x 220-Pro companions .. thus I have 4 x 440-Pro bi-amping my 802-D3s. 

I must say I have never been a happier person that I am today with my Devialets. They do everything I ever wanted from my system. Most prominently, the system actually vanishes leaving you with a 'room full of musicians doing their stuff' ... noise levels are non-existent and indeed - I feel like I am hearing it LIVE & in sonic nirvana !!  No regrets and am still looking at ways to improve my sound further but nothing in a hurry ...
Very reassuring post, thank you a lot. 2*d220 for biamping could not do the job to your sutisfaction ?
Vandersteen 5A, d220 pro CI , Dyrholm Audio x series cables all the way, qnap 451+,Mac mini Audirvana, dedicated circuits. Moscow Russia
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#24
Quote:do you wholeheartedly can say, that when you listen to your system you get the feeling of the artist's presence in the room, that the music feels "alive" like real

I basically agree with what Jean-Marie wrote: our systems are just last part of a long chain starting at eg. microphone. Most of that chain is completely out of our control, so the best any system can offer is to deal with the "last mile" as good as possible: the more high-fidelity the system is, the more accurately it will reproduce the recording of an artist's performance, rather than the artist's performance itself.

Let me quote Archimago (whose blog btw. I wholeheartedly recommend to every audiophile as a vaccination against overwhelming amount of voodoo taking over our hobby):
"Whether the final recording sounds like it has a wide soundstage, allows pin-point placement, sounds diffuse, or is presented as a "wall of sound" was to a large extent decided in the process of the audio recording and production long before you and I got to hear it on our systems."
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/04/mu...ns-on.html
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#25
I'd take a different perspective to Archimago on this topic.

Soundstage and imaging are unavoidable once you move from mono with a single speaker to a 2 channel system with 2 discrete non-identical channels of audio and 2 separate speakers. You can't avoid a soundstage and imaging once that decision is made.

What the recording does is to determine, by creating and fixing the difference in content of the 2 channels, just what the soundstage and imaging possibilities for the recording are. What the equipment and setup does is to determine which one of an infinite number of possibilities in soundstage and imaging the listener will hear.

When we can choose to put both of our speakers side by side touching each other directly in front of us and reduce what we hear to mono, it's pretty obvious that whether or not it sounds like it has a wide soundstage or has pinpoint placement of a diffuse sound or whatever isn't solely or even primarily due to the choices made in the making of the recording. If the engineer's choices were the prime determinant we wouldn't be able to nullify them with setup choices yet we can nullify the engineer's choices. The choices we make in relation to our equipment and setup are just as critical as the choices the recording engineer makes.

The results aren't decided to a large extent before we get to hear them on our systems. We play just as big a part in the result as the engineer does. The engineer gives us something to work with, but we decide what we do with what the engineer gives us. What we do with it is just as critical to the end result as what we're given to work with.
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#26
I'm with @M_M here. Not that anyone should care what I think. Recording, mixing and mastering matter hugely. I'm not overly concerned with soundstage and instrument positioning, but I know... believe, that good spatial presentation is what happens when music is well recorded, mixed and mastered. But it is not necessarily 'real', and what we do with our system set up is not as important as what the engineer does. Or, we can't do more than the production process does.

Exhibit A: Maggie singing, upstairs, in a room acoustically isolated from the floor below. (Man, I had such a crush on her).
Exhibit B: Damon, posing downstairs, in front of a bunch of equipment with a bewildering number of lights and buttons, where I played my parts. (yes, I really am this old).

Result: music recorded live off the floor. Strangely no one ever said, 'Gee, it sounds like the singer is 15 feet higher and in a room by herself.' Or, 'why is the bass amp in a separate room?' All I suggesting is that based on my limited experience, recording quality, at every step in the process, matters a great deal. 

Leaping back to the original question posed by @Alve, I can't say that Devialet-based systems will give you the 'alive' feeling you seek. But I feel that the Devialet lets me see more deeply, more clearly, into the recorded music than other amps I've heard. And without question, my exposure to other amps is quite limited so I'm not making this an absolute claim. But listening to recordings that I know intimately, I'm getting the real deal with this amp. Your hearing and preferences may vary. 

   
   
Damon
W4S modified Sonos Connect & VPI HW19 mkIII into a D220 Pro CI, capably carried by Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cable, and thence made expansive by Lawrence Audio Violin SE speakers, and juiced by power cords and coax cables from Nordost in decorator colors. It gets friendly with power through a Shunyata Denali 2000T.
Vancouver, Canada
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#27
I agree with both David and Damon, one cannot retrieve anything realistic from a bad recording, just like cannot through a poor, not well tuned system. Moving my speakers just 5cm forward or sideways, makes huge difference in imaging and tonal balance. Lucky for us there is a number of good records, and I just would love to get them sing through my system. 

On the other note I went to a dealer to hear my d220 with sonus Faber Amati. It should be a very good match according to the dealer. Overall, the sound  was huge, monster sound stage, beautiful imaging and, a wow effect. However, the vocals did not seem live, just like in my system. Ok again the room was different, speakers not located properly and so on. 
Anyway I really liked the pairing and Sam just did a good job with the bass.. They have top monos from air tight, so I will come one day to compare my d with them.


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#28
@Alve
Thanks for the post. One thing comes to mind about the Pro / CI series; some have had a feeling that these amps present the midrange and vocals differently than the older Expert series. It can seem less pronounced, and that a singers voice does not come to the front. I remember that I had that reaction too, when my 120 became a 220, and I was listening to one of my favorite Sarah Vaughan recordings. Ultimately I came to appreciate the realism that came with the extra detail and closeness. By closeness here, I mean hearing more of the nuances and subtle variations in the voice, even if it was not so far 'out' from the speakers. That feeling of 'hearing into the music' is what I was trying to explain, in part, with my overloaded post above. I know that you did not start with an Expert and upgrade, but I think that the Pro series may not be the amp that will put the singer in your lap, so to speak.

I like the Devialet presentation, but I can fully understand that other amps may give a more mid-forward sound, and that may be what you are after. The characteristics you described in your first post include the things that many of us like about the Devialet but I would not argue that the Pro CI sound does not really push voices to the front. If the SF Amati doesn't do it, perhaps trying a different amp is worthwhile. Some thing from Audio Research, with a tubed preamp? Possibly? I don't know this speaker, but my expectation would be that mids and vocals would be quite rich with and SF.
Damon
W4S modified Sonos Connect & VPI HW19 mkIII into a D220 Pro CI, capably carried by Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cable, and thence made expansive by Lawrence Audio Violin SE speakers, and juiced by power cords and coax cables from Nordost in decorator colors. It gets friendly with power through a Shunyata Denali 2000T.
Vancouver, Canada
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#29
(08-Apr-2019, 16:57)Damon Wrote: @Alve
Thanks for the post. One thing comes to mind about the Pro / CI series; some have had a feeling that these amps present the midrange and vocals differently than the older Expert series. It can seem less pronounced, and that a singers voice does not come to the front. I remember that I had that reaction too, when my 120 became a 220, and I was listening to one of my favorite Sarah Vaughan recordings. Ultimately I came to appreciate the realism that came with the extra detail and closeness. By closeness here, I mean hearing more of the nuances and subtle variations in the voice, even if it was not so far 'out' from the speakers. That feeling of 'hearing into the music' is what I was trying to explain, in part, with my overloaded post above. I know that you did not start with an Expert and upgrade, but I think that the Pro series may not be the amp that will put the singer in your lap, so to speak.

I like the Devialet presentation, but I can fully understand that other amps may give a more mid-forward sound, and that may be what you are after. The characteristics you described in your first post include the things that many of us like about the Devialet but I would not argue that the Pro CI sound does not really push voices to the front. If the SF Amati doesn't do it, perhaps trying a different amp is worthwhile. Some thing from Audio Research, with a tubed preamp? Possibly? I don't know this speaker, but my expectation would be that mids and vocals would be quite rich with and SF.

Thank you Damon,

I have taken my D220 to my friend’s system and listened and compared. Well, the D was I would say cleaner, a bit more detailed, but did not make as good, large and deep sound stage, and the vocals were just like in my system. When I speak of live vocals, I’m not saying voice in front. It is maybe a slight part of it. It is the timber of voice, sort of a “soul” to it that makes it perceived as live. I don’t know how to discribe it. The sound of Devialet seems to stay with most of the speakers. Well, however, Amati did give the wow effect, but I did not compare with other amps. My friend has older top monos from celo and infinity RS speakers 
Our chat Members report vast improvements In sound stage and imaging going to D440. Maybe, I will be able to borrow a second d220 to try it.


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#30
Also agree with Jean-Marie on the dependence on mastering etc. for me and my system. But yes, with some recordings, the music sounds very real. Muddy Waters' Folk Singer comes to mind, feels like you're right there Smile 1964..

I love how the quest of looking for "pleasing" sounding records brings me to artists and genres I probably wouldn't get to know otherwise..
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