Ethernet or wifi streaming and white noise on Mac

[IanG-UK]

Good point Alex.

Maybe terminology has lapsed and we need to classify these noises as (a) continuous disturbance; (b) drop outs; or © crackles.Or something better.

As far as I can discern, crackles/drop outs are network related whereas continuous disturbances are clock related. But others here may be able to categorise/establish cause/identify solutions better than I can.

Ian, I think describing white noise as "continuous disturbance" is being too politcally correct.
White noise == very loud (although that depends on the current volume) steady (not throbbing ) hissing coming from both speakers (mainly the tweeters and mid range drivers). Occasionally, it starts with music barely audible against the relatively quiet hissing background, but soon switches to full blown loud hissing, with no music discernible whatsoever.

To those attempting to stream over WiFi (vs Ethernet) in any part of the music chain, this, in my opinion, is a hopeless undertaking, if you go beyond the CD format, unless you live in a secluded mansion. Even many network streamers (e.g. Moon MiND) specify in their documentation that you have to be fully wired, to stream above the 16/44.1 resolution. But then those streamers, accept the compressed files over DLNA, whereas AIR sends uncompressed packets to Devialet, further increasing the network traffic.
Incidentally, I was never able to use WiFi even for 16/44. I purchased an AirPort Extreme, and trouble shot the WiFi network, to make sure I was streaming on an empty channel. All to no avail. It would play fine one day, and give me hiccups the next one. Only later did I realize that my neighbor's wireless phone was responsible for those interruptions.
Going fully wired (to my dedicated AirPort Extreme router) solved all problems for me, except for the occasional white noise, which issue, it appears, is getting better and better with the recent iterations of AIR (beta-1 and beta-4).

We may be talking about different noise Alex.

I get very similar experience whether ethernet or wifi. Maybe the noise comes slightly quicker with wifi but I have not timed this. The timing is too random. 

The noise I get is definitely not crackles or drop outs. It is continuous, starting quietly, and becoming more prominent. It is not necessarily a volume thing - more that the noise swamps the music, as though the music almost disappears. The Devialet AIR software engineer has heard it and seen the OS experience on my MacBook as the interference happens. He is absolutely clear that it is a clocking issue - so for me to describe it as a generic white noise is probably inaccurate. But I cannot think of how to describe it otherwise!

[Confused]

White noise for me (over in Windows land), is indeed loud as Alex states, loud relative to the volume of the preceding music without a doubt. What does it sound like? More or less like an FM radio between channels or an analogue TV without an aerial and the volume cranked up.

[Hifi_swlon]

White noise for me (over in Windows land), is indeed loud as Alex states, loud relative to the volume of the preceding music without a doubt. What does it sound like? More or less like an FM radio between channels or an analogue TV without an aerial and the volume cranked up.

OK, well, I've definitely not experienced that - just a throbbing/thwapping distorted sound.

So, am I right in thinking that with Air, people are experiencing popping and crackling (like me), a loud untuned FM radio style white noise, and other things like my strobing/throbbing noise?

I can only assume Devialet are aware of all these? Or is it best to let them know about it each time? I dont want them to think it isn't happening, but I know that bombarding support with known issues can also use up their resources...

[Mac User]

I've had the opportunity to deal direct with the Devialet engineer who writes the coding for AIR.

My issue, for months, has been noise using AIR, more profound on hi-res (slightly quicker to happen on wifi than ethernet) but still an issue (which happens much more slowly) using 16/44 (again slightly quicker to happen on wifi than ethernet).

Today the engineer took control of my MacBook Pro whilst the noise was present, using ethernet and a buffer size of 5000ms (as he recommended). The noise, by the way, is continuous persistent disturbance, not drop outs or crackles. Apparently, the latter is usually associated with an inadequate wifi infrastructure whereas the former is a timing error associated with the pace at which the audio samples are extracted.

This is, apparently, similar to the issue with Windows, but cannot be eliminated using the same solution.

So they now know where the noise stems from, and need to find a way of solving it. I believe it is due to a one byte offset in the buffer manager - but one which is not solved by having a big buffer size.

Thanks so much for your efforts Ian, you've nailed exactly what I hear too.

[AlexS]

White noise for me (over in Windows land), is indeed loud as Alex states, loud relative to the volume of the preceding music without a doubt.  What does it sound like?  More or less like an FM radio between channels or an analogue TV without an aerial and the volume cranked up.

OK, well, I've definitely not experienced that - just a throbbing/thwapping distorted sound.

So, am I right in thinking that with Air, people are experiencing popping and crackling (like me), a loud untuned FM radio style white noise, and other things like my strobing/throbbing noise?

I can only assume Devialet are aware of all these? Or is it best to let them know about it each time?  I dont want them to think it isn't happening, but I know that bombarding support with known issues can also use up their resources...

Regarding this particular kind of noise, yes, I would describe this as precisely as you can to Devilaet Support, as they may not be aware of this variation.
Regarding Ian's description of the white noise he's getting, it may well sound somewhat differently between MAC and PC. That's why it's probably a good idea to have two separate threads active - one for PC, the other one for MAC.

[Rufus McDufus]

With AIR 2.1.4-beta4 I've had the 'throbbing' noise - it's like a drop in volume lasting for perhaps 1/4 of a second and repeated every 1/2 to 1 second at a constant rate. It 'pulses' non stop. Restarting AIR solved it. I've also had crackling with 2.1.4-beta4 - exactly when the PC display turned off automatically.
Prior to 2.1.4-beta4 (i.e 2.1.3) I only hear dropouts or white noise. I haven't heard either of these with 2.1.4-beta4. This is all with Windows 7 64-bit.

I wrote to Devialet with my findings. No reply yet.

[IanG-UK]

I feel I owe readers an update on my (and many many others') AIR "white noise" issue since it is now almost seven weeks since I started this thread and it is around a year since I first raised this with my dealer and/or distributor and/or Devialet.

I won't go over all the futile experiments I've conducted (effectively on Devialet's behalf, over that one year period) to try to track down the fault. When what should have happened is that Devialet should have immediately conducted rather more focussed experiments and concluded them nine months ago.

The fact remains that a good proportion of Devialet's users, who want to use AIR, find it is faulty. And have found it faulty for many months.

I find it annoying that Devialet can devote the time and efforts of 60 engineers, over a year or more, to develop Phantom (their "budget" product) and yet fail to deliver their four year old "flagship" product (fortunately no longer called "Premier") as a priority. Especially when AIR was one of Devialet's four USPs (ADH, EVO, AIR, SAM).

Perhaps this is an indication that the focus has shifted from sustained quality to substantial profitability.

Understandable but regrettably dishonest.

[midi]

Has anybody tested Apples OS beta 10.10.4 ?

There is a big WLAN system change in 10.10.4.

[AlexS]

I feel I owe readers an update on my (and many many others') AIR "white noise" issue since it is now almost seven weeks since I started this thread and it is around a year since I first raised this with my dealer and/or distributor and/or Devialet.

I won't go over all the futile experiments I've conducted (effectively on Devialet's behalf, over that one year period) to try to track down the fault. When what should have happened is that Devialet should have immediately conducted rather more focussed experiments and concluded them nine months ago.

The fact remains that a good proportion of Devialet's users, who want to use AIR, find it is faulty. And have found it faulty for many months.

I find it annoying that Devialet can devote the time and efforts of 60 engineers, over a year or more, to develop Phantom (their "budget" product) and yet fail to deliver their four year old "flagship" product (fortunately no longer called "Premier") as a priority. Especially when AIR was one of Devialet's four USPs (ADH, EVO, AIR, SAM).

Perhaps this is an indication that the focus has shifted from sustained quality to substantial profitability.

Understandable but regrettably dishonest.

Judging by the fact that Devilaet still has not released a prod version of AIR 2.1.4-beta4, which tested satisfactorily for many Windows users, I won't be surprised if there is a complete re-write of AIR looming on the horizon. But this is just a pure speculation. I've not made any inquiries to Devialet on this topic.

[Magagne]

Speculation, but, it's the most logic hypothesis. Rebuild from scratch it's sometime a better decision, even if it's take time consuming (and cost). But don't pass me the bill of the DevialetDialog gizmo, to make the devialetAir happen, because I'll not be happy at all to pay for an extra gadget, just to get the initial feature (streaming) that I already pay for it.

The fact is, my apple airportexpress, 1st generation, do 16/44 flawlessly, so there's absolutely no excuse here that the devialetAir cannot work without cracking noise in 16/44, moreover if we use Ethernet/rj45. Don't blame solidity of the network (in rj45 all the way, there's no reason to get white noise). The architecture that devialetAir decide to use for the network is a in house solution, and, it's not mature yet. Sound great, when it works. Saying that, Devialet, it's the best sound system that I never had, I come from a trusty last 15 years relation with NAIM only mid gear (Nait3, Nait5, SN2/V1), saying that, I don't regret my switch/choice at all, even before jumping I known that the devialetAir had problems, I jumped, because devialet It's the Tesla car of amplification, with an innovative motor design (hybrid amplification), and it works, and works very well (SQ). An awesome performance machine. Don't be afraid of new technology/architecture, don't hesitate, try it. JUMP.


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