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Expert and basic subwoofer setup & configuration
#11
Posted this elsewhere and then found this thread, hopefully this is a better place for a response.

Hi,

I have an Expert 200 with Wharfedale Evo 4.4's (https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/evo4-4/) and a BK P12-300SB-PR subwoofer (https://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/...SB-PR.html).

I've connected the sub via the high level connection and had a fiddle around with the settings via the online configurator. I realise ultimately the sound being produced will be down to personal preference when set up as to whether it's acceptable.

I'm pretty new to all this and am hoping for a little input from those with a little more experience. My question is, looking at the specs for the equipment what would be the optimum values for the settings on paper?

Thank you in advance.

Moses.
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#12
Your speakers go down to 44hz.
One group of experts recommends crossing over at low frequency "limit" + 50%. In your case at around 65-70Hz.
Another group of experts recommends the crossover point being as high as possible as long as you can't locate your subs. It depends on their location and some personal ability to do that - "human average" based on experiments is 80Hz. Your main speakers are quite good at producing base so I don't think it's necessary to go over 80Hz.
I would never connect the subwoofer via high-level connection though, especially not with the Devialet that is so easily programmable.
As for me, I have two ELAC Sub 2090 and use a low-pass filter in the Devialet at 80Hz and also a high-pass filter to the main speakers (which would actually go down to 35Hz).
In my experience, the most important thing with subs is time alignment. There are not many stereo amps that allow you put a delay on the main speakers, which is necessary in most cases. Luckily Devialet does. In my case, I needed about 10ms but that can only be figured out with proper measuring equipment and some understanding of what's going on. Without that, subwoofers will never complement a system to their full potential. I speak from experience...
Win10/HQPlayer / Roon - SOtM modified D-link switch / SOtM-SMS-200 ultra with clock input - SOtM tx-USB ultra with clock input 
Mutec MC-3 USB, Mutec REF 10 
Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090 
power supplies: Uptone JS-2, SOtM SPS-500
cables: Acrolink, Acoustic Revive, Curious USB, Vovox Ethernet. 'tweeks': optical network isolation, Shakti Stones and Halograph, Acoustic Revive RR-777, Zcable Sleeves, fo.Q vibration control, EMI absorbing sheets, Sonitus Acoustic Panels. 
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#13
Thank you for the response.

I'm using high level as the low level/LFE is being use by the Denon AV.

My setup is as below.

Denon AVC-4700 with pre-out to Devialet 200, the Denon runs everything except the FR which are controlled by the Devialet via the pre-outs from the Denon. This allows me to switch between the amps depending on if I'm listening to music or watching movies.

I'm using 2 of the BK subs now and have invested in a MiniDSP 2x4HD with Umik mic for the Denon set up. Any articles on time aligning using REW and high level would be great if you know of any.

Again thank you for you time.
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#14
(10-Jan-2021, 20:53)Delija Wrote: 120 Hz is pretty high.
What speakers are you using?

Apologies for the tardy response

They are Eminent Technology LF8b which is a planar design with a 10" woofer. 

There were two criteria for using 120Hz as a crossover point

The first was the woofer in the speakers is not nearly as fast as the B&W DB1 sub, I experimented from 60Hz in increments and found 120Hz to work the best
The second is that it limits the power the amp has to deliver to the main spkrs
                                                           Cape Town - South Africa
Listening stuff:  Lindemann Limetree Bridge.  Expert 220PRO CI.  vdH 4-core cable to ET LF8bs, B&W DB1 sub, less-loss mains cable, Furman mains filter.
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#15
Morning,
Im on a 120 expert (without a sub card). I have tried to follow responses and look to se if an input can be changed to pre-out for a sub. But I don't get the option as it appears in the screen shots in prior thread. Is it possible to do so ? 
Appreciated


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
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#16
(26-Aug-2021, 06:31)CarbonMason Wrote: Morning,
Im on a 120 expert (without a sub card). I have tried to follow responses and look to se if an input can be changed to pre-out for a sub. But I don't get the option as it appears in the screen shots in prior thread. Is it possible to do so ? 
Appreciated

When you start a configuration from scratch, are you able to select preamplified output in phase 2 of the setup? If so, then in the advanced Configurator you can enable the digital inputs by clicking on them, then clicking on the orange arrow above the inputs, change them to stereo preamplified outputs. You can also select just one input and make it a mono output. 
Welcome to DC, by the way! 😀
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#17
Thank you so much @Axel
I tried to start configurator from scratch (ie create a second from the beginning), but the first step doesn't offer an option for pre out. Neither does the next
Following through to advanced config gets me to same options as first screen shot yesterday.
Feeling this should be simple and straightforward but Im not seeing it
The response appreciated.


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#18
(26-Aug-2021, 23:10)CarbonMason Wrote: Thank you so much @Axel
I tried to start configurator from scratch (ie create a second from the beginning), but the first step doesn't offer an option for pre out. Neither does the next
Following through to advanced config gets me to same options as first screen shot yesterday.
Feeling this should be simple and straightforward but Im not seeing it
The response appreciated.

On the first page of the Configurator, is the option for pre out not shown or just not selectable? I’ve been looking at the Configurator and when I start from scratch and select expert 120, the option for preamplified output is present and selectable, so I’m not sure why you can’t select this option. The line inputs that you show are for hooking up a turntable or digital via spdif. If you can select preamplified output in the 2nd stage, then when you access the advanced Configurator you must enable the digital inputs by clicking on their icon on the back of the amp then click on the orange arrow above the icon to change the input/output properties.
Can you post a screenshot of what you see after you have started a new config and chosen your amp model?    
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#19
@Axel I'm indebted - many, many thanks. So many questions and such frustration and answer was simply "scroll down" - I'd never seen the pre-out tickbox on my screen as never scrolled down. Feeling slightly embarrassed and a little humbled, I'm glad I reached out on this forum.
I'm off to start playing with config
Buying you a virtual beer - cheers

Niel
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#20
(29-Aug-2021, 01:31)CarbonMason Wrote: @Axel I'm indebted - many, many thanks. So many questions and such frustration and answer was simply "scroll down" - I'd never seen the pre-out tickbox on my screen as never scrolled down. Feeling slightly embarrassed and a little humbled, I'm glad I reached out on this forum.
I'm off to start playing with config
Buying you a virtual beer - cheers

Niel

Glad it’s sorted out. That virtual beer tastes good. Cheers buddy! 😀
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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