Firmware 13.2.0 - DOS 2.2.6 for Expert Pro - Release note

[Flashman]

If Dickens had written "A Tale of Two Cities," incidentally my favorite fiction book, with Devialet in mind, he might point to its timely adoption of Roon and its flawed implementation of Sweet Room. For many on this forum, the Roon adoption brought us a badly needed streaming solution (recall Roon and Air working perfectly in tandem) beginning with the pre-Expert Pro line. I still figuratively shake my head in amazement that Devialet found a way to work effectively with Roon, especially when you consider how many manufacturers today (Hegel, NAD, etc.) are struggling to get their units certified. On the other hand, how many manufacturers would put their customers through such an insanely difficult and convoluted process to get Sweet Room working? Devialet helped usher in the high-end audio lifestyle product that eliminated multiple boxes, looked great and, once the configuration process was done, worked as fluidly as a warm knife slicing through Normandy butter. Yet now, we are required to find/purchase a microphone, ferret out an appropriate software package and then rely on the good graces of fellow owners to figure out how to make the obstinate thing work. One day, I hope to find a solution and be able to say “It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done.”

[Soniclife]

this is currently not working for the companion. I have asked Devialet and they confirmed they are working on that.
So currently a dual mono system can only use the main EQ set and you cannot switch beween EQ on or off (empty alternate set).

So it's not just me doing something dumb then, it's another bug.  Have they come back to you at all since you reported it.

[mdconnelly]

I have to echo a bit of @Flashman 's sentiment here.  Why did Devialet release "Sweet Room" given the lack of user interface, the lack of thorough documentation and the lack of bug-free software re: dual monos (how could they have not tested that?)  I suppose it could be seen as a possible sign-of-life within Devialet with regard to the Expert Pros, but that still doesn't excuse the marginal value of this latest update.  FWIW, I think Sweet Room does hold great potential, but right now it's barely a proof-of-concept.

Time will tell but still not holding my breath.

[David A]

If Devialet was going to give the Expert Pros room "correction" functionality, then the only way it had to do so was the way it went. Take a look at the M33 as an example of an amp with a software interface and a microphone supplied. Dirac software is actually running in the amp itself and the amp has a microphone input. Devialet doesn't have similar software running and that kind of software does 2 things, it does the measuring and calculation of the correction and it does the application of the correction in DSP. The Expert Pros have DSP capability and can apply a correction, they don't have the software and mic interface to handle the measurement and calculation they may well not have the memory to allow you to load the software for the measurement and calculation process on the amp. Part of the problem why they haven't tried to give us that sort of functionality is almost certainly going to be hardware limitations in the amp. I doubt the current Expert Pro range has the storage available for the software required for measurement and calculation of this sort of correction and I'm not certain that the current OS and firmware would be able to handle mic input from the USB port and providing that capability is going to increase the size of the current OS and FW files. None of us know just what the file storage capability of the Expert Pro range is but it probably isn't significantly greater than what was needed for them to include the functionality they wanted to include when the line was designed.

The bottom line is that if you can't do the measurement and calculation of corrections and you have a DSP engine available, you may be able to modify your firmware so that the DSP engine can apply room correction provided the corrections are created on a separate computer. That's what they've done. It's not the ideal solution but it's probably the only solution they have available with the current hardware. If they can make Sweet Room work, and it seems to have at least one bug with SAM restricting the number of filters that can be applied, then they may consider it worthwhile to ensure that they have the hardware capability in the next amp range to include a full room correction software suite but if they can't get the application of corrections working properly then there's no point in adding full correction capability to a future line. There's no point in releasing an amp that can do the measurements and calculate the required corrections for you if it isn't capable of applying those corrections and they have some problems with that at the moment.

Re @Flashman 's comment about the hard time other manufacturers such as Hegel and NAD are having getting their products certified by Roon, it's quite possible that Devialet is partly to blame for that. Devialet didn't have an easy road to certification either. I seem to remember that it took them longer than they anticipated to reach the point where they could present a product for certification and it then took longer than Devialet hoped for them to get certification. If I remember correctly they submitted their software to Roon in November '18 and announced to owners that they hoped to have certification in a matter of weeks with a FW release in December. We got the FW release in February '19, 2 months later than they had hoped. Devialet didn't have an easy run at it and in the end a bug slipped past both Devialet and Roon and it caused headaches for both companies. I wouldn't be surprised if Roon hasn't implemented a more rigorous certification process at their end in order to try and make it harder for bugs to slip through the certification process and cause similar headaches for Roon in the future, and that kind of rigour also helps the manufacturers to avoid having to deal with bugs and leaving customers in limbo for 20 months as Devialet did with us. Once bitten, twice shy as the saying goes. Roon got bitten with the Expert Pros and probably doesn't want to get bitten again. As for Devialet, it seems to like getting bitten by the bugs in its firmware because it seems to like putting out releases that harbour them on a regular basis.

I'll give Devialet an A for effort for trying to do something about room correction, I'll give them a fail on delivery for releasing something that has problems and doesn't do what it's supposed to do if you're running SAM, and I'll give Roon an A for taking a more cautious line on certification after their experience with Devialet's bug because I think that if other companies are finding it hard to get certification finalised, caution on Roon's part due to Devialt's bug is the reason for longer certification time frames.

[Axel]

If Devialet was going to give the Expert Pros room "correction" functionality, then the only way it had to do so was the way it went. Take a look at the M33 as an example of an amp with a software interface and a microphone supplied. Dirac software is actually running in the amp itself and the amp has a microphone input. Devialet doesn't have similar software running and that kind of software does 2 things, it does the measuring and calculation of the correction and it does the application of the correction in DSP. The Expert Pros have DSP capability and can apply a correction, they don't have the software and mic interface to handle the measurement and calculation they may well not have the memory to allow you to load the software for the measurement and calculation process on the amp. Part of the problem why they haven't tried to give us that sort of functionality is almost certainly going to be hardware limitations in the amp. I doubt the current Expert Pro range has the storage available for the software required for measurement and calculation of this sort of correction and I'm not certain that the current OS and firmware would be able to handle mic input from the USB port and providing that capability is going to increase the size of the current OS and FW files. None of us know just what the file storage capability of the Expert Pro range is but it probably isn't significantly greater than what was needed for them to include the functionality they wanted to include when the line was designed.

The bottom line is that if you can't do the measurement and calculation of corrections and you have a DSP engine available, you may be able to modify your firmware so that the DSP engine can apply room correction provided the corrections are created on a separate computer. That's what they've done. It's not the ideal solution but it's probably the only solution they have available with the current hardware. If they can make Sweet Room work, and it seems to have at least one bug with SAM restricting the number of filters that can be applied, then they may consider it worthwhile to ensure that they have the hardware capability in the next amp range to include a full room correction software suite but if they can't get the application of corrections working properly then there's no point in adding full correction capability to a future line. There's no point in releasing an amp that can do the measurements and calculate the required corrections for you if it isn't capable of applying those corrections and they have some problems with that at the moment.

Re @Flashman 's comment about the hard time other manufacturers such as Hegel and NAD are having getting their products certified by Roon, it's quite possible that Devialet is partly to blame for that. Devialet didn't have an easy road to certification either. I seem to remember that it took them longer than they anticipated to reach the point where they could present a product for certification and it then took longer than Devialet hoped for them to get certification. If I remember correctly they submitted their software to Roon in November '18 and announced to owners that they hoped to have certification in a matter of weeks with a FW release in December. We got the FW release in February '19, 2 months later than they had hoped. Devialet didn't have an easy run at it and in the end a bug slipped past both Devialet and Roon and it caused headaches for both companies. I wouldn't be surprised if Roon hasn't implemented a more rigorous certification process at their end in order to try and make it harder for bugs to slip through the certification process and cause similar headaches for Roon in the future, and that kind of rigour also helps the manufacturers to avoid having to deal with bugs and leaving customers in limbo for 20 months as Devialet did with us. Once bitten, twice shy as the saying goes. Roon got bitten with the Expert Pros and probably doesn't want to get bitten again. As for Devialet, it seems to like getting bitten by the bugs in its firmware because it seems to like putting out releases that harbour them on a regular basis.

I'll give Devialet an A for effort for trying to do something about room correction, I'll give them a fail on delivery for releasing something that has problems and doesn't do what it's supposed to do if you're running SAM, and I'll give Roon an A for taking a more cautious line on certification after their experience with Devialet's bug because I think that if other companies are finding it hard to get certification finalised, caution on Roon's part due to Devialt's bug is the reason for longer certification time frames.

If Devialet made it possible to load configurations via Ethernet, do you think it might be possible to then use the redundant SD card for extra memory to enable the storage of the software for DSP? I’m aware that at present there seems to be a problem using SD cards over a certain size, but they may be able to address this with a FW update.
Also, the amps do have two way USB functionality, although the amp has a “B” connector it might be possible to use an adapter like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Generic-Type-Fe...B000AA2SMS or this: https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-...pler-p6022  to enable microphone connection.

[David A]

@Axel

To respond to your question first, yes the Devialet does have 2 way USB functionality but the incoming signal it is currently capable of dealing with is music playback so it would seem that the input goes to the DAC. I'm not certain whether it would take software additional to the room correction software in order to enable a mic input to be passed to room correction software for analysis and input into the correction calculation process.

And that in a way is the difficulty in relation to your first question. We don't know what the capabilities, and more importantly, the limitations are for the processor and storage in the current Expert Pros. My understanding is that the limit for the SD card slot and reader is 8 GB which isn't all that much these days and we also don't know what the read speed capability is. Using the card the way it is currently used, for access to relatively small text files for configurations and also relatively small files for the OS and FW (a total of 62.3 MB for the current OS/FW) isn't going to require much in the way of access speed. A lot may depend on what you use the SD card for and we don't know what Devialet would need to do to the FW and OS if they were going to change the usage of the SD card in the way you suggest.

I'm also a little cautious about using the SD card for something more critical than config files under normal circumstances because I had a problem with my SD card slot last year when my 140 Pro stopped reading cards and needed to go back to France for repair. I could have continued to use it with the factory config but the real problem was that I was no longer capable of installing updates. I'm not certain the SD card is a good storage option for "mission critical" functions.

I'm also not certain how confident I would be about adopting a Devialet room correction software function given that they had a serious bug with Roon Ready capability and some seem to think that it still is not completely solved, and given that Sweet Room doesn't work properly if you're running SAM and given that SAM is a major point in Devialet's technology claims, the fact that they released Sweet Room in a state unable to function properly with SAM and seemed unaware of the problem doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I think the big priority for Devialet right now is making sure the current OS and FW software is actually bug free and fully functional for all advertised functions. If they can't manage that, then they probably can't manage a significant OS and FW rewrite to accommodate some pretty intensive new software functionality without introducing new problems and I think it's time they actually managed to give us a software version without problems before they try doing anything else.

[ThomasD]

There are some complaints about upgrade but must say I am very satisfied. Thanks Devialet!

Ethernet works 100% ! My findings on filters is that less in more! 

Bit surprised about all complicated filter settings stated by others. I am only filtering room resonances below 250 Hz in order not to change phases in critical ranges etc and get a bad impact on sound.

My procedure for sweet room. 
- Borrowed measurement equipment from friend. It suggests  both -dB and Q . 
- Meassured three points in room for each channel.
- Wrote result int text file, very easy.
- New measurement.
- Fine tuned adjustment
-Final meassurement

I found two main resonances in one channel and three in the other. 31Hz, 48Hz and 80 Hz. I did the same adjustment with 20% SAM. This is my preferred setting for SAM. Same resonances as before but slightly higher in one channel.

The bass from my speakers has really improved. Listen to jazz bass players is realy impressing for such a small speaker as the C1/II. 

Why do you state that SAM and sweet room does not work?

My only wish now is to have the configurator directly on my computer.

[David A]

@ThomasD ,

People are reporting that if they are using SAM and set up a filter profile with 9 filters per channel which Sweet Room is supposedly capable of handling, only the first 5 filters work, the last 4 are ignored, but if SAM is off then all 9 filters work. Devialet have confirmed this behaviour.

If you're only using 3 filters per channel with SAM you wouldn't have any problems based on the reports elsewhere here and what Devialet confirmed.

[Axel]

@Axel

To respond to your question first, yes the Devialet does have 2 way USB functionality but the incoming signal it is currently capable of dealing with is music playback so it would seem that the input goes to the DAC. I'm not certain whether it would take software additional to the room correction software in order to enable a mic input to be passed to room correction software for analysis and input into the correction calculation process.

And that in a way is the difficulty in relation to your first question. We don't know what the capabilities, and more importantly, the limitations are for the processor and storage in the current Expert Pros. My understanding is that the limit for the SD card slot and reader is 8 GB which isn't all that much these days and we also don't know what the read speed capability is. Using the card the way it is currently used, for access to relatively small text files for configurations and also relatively small files for the OS and FW (a total of 62.3 MB for the current OS/FW) isn't going to require much in the way of access speed. A  lot may depend on what you use the SD card for and we don't know what Devialet would need to do to the FW and OS if they were going to change the usage of the SD card in the way you suggest.

I'm also a little cautious about using the SD card for something more critical than config files under normal circumstances because I had a problem with my SD card slot last year when my 140 Pro stopped reading cards and needed to go back to France for repair. I could have continued to use it with the factory config but the real problem was that I was no longer capable of installing updates. I'm not certain the SD card is a good storage option for "mission critical" functions.

I'm also not certain how confident I would be about adopting a Devialet room correction software function given that they had a serious bug with Roon Ready capability and some seem to think that it still is not completely solved, and given that Sweet Room doesn't work properly if you're running SAM and given that SAM is a major point in Devialet's technology claims, the fact that they released Sweet Room in a state unable to function properly with SAM and seemed unaware of the problem doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I think the big priority for Devialet right now is making sure the current OS and FW software is actually bug free and fully functional for all advertised functions. If they can't manage that, then they probably can't manage a significant OS and FW rewrite to accommodate some pretty intensive new software functionality without introducing new problems and I think it's time they actually managed to give us a software version without problems before they try doing anything else.

Yes, that all makes sense. It was just a thought...

[WTree]

My procedure for sweet room. 
- Borrowed measurement equipment from friend. It suggests  both -dB and Q . 
- Meassured three points in room for each channel.
- Wrote result int text file, very easy.
- New measurement.
- Fine tuned adjustment
-Final meassurement

Hi Thomas, Good to know that the process is quite simple. Very encouraging ! Please share some more info on the equipment that you borrowed to make the measurement.