Firmware 8.1.2 released

[Dr Tone]

Hey Confused,

Did you play with the subsonic filter? I was certain mine was off but I looked today and it was on, not sure if that changed with the latest 8.1.2 firmware update or what.

[Jean-Marie]

An update.  After trying many things, the firmware 8.1.2 / SAM / Blades combo still sounded dreadful.  In essence, there appears to be a massive increase in the very lowest bass, it does not sound good at all.  This gave me a thought (it happens occasionally).  The Blade 2 is SAM V8 designated, which I believe means it has been SAM'd with SAM lab for SAM V2.  So as an experiment, I tried running the Blade 2 SAM profile.  With 8.1.2, the Blade 2 SAM profile actually sounded far better than using the "correct" original Blade profile.  In search for further information, I thought I would then try the new KEF Reference 5 profile.  This is obviously a traditional "box" style speaker, but does have the same number and type of bass driver as the Blade, essentially the Ref is a box style trickle down development of the Blade.  The reference 5 profile also sounded massively better with 8.1.2 than the "correct" original Blade SAM profile.  I'll do a bit more listening tomorrow, but it looks like there is something very amiss with the Blade SAM profile.  I have posted previously that I really liked SAM with the Blades (on 7.x.x firmware), but one downside was that with some tracks there appeared to be a little too much ultra low bass grunge.  I'd put this down to the fact that any speaker that could effectively run flat frequency response to sub bass levels would have some issues like this.  I'm not so sure now, I beginning to think the original Blade SAM profile is defective somewhere, and now with SAM 2 this has gone from a minor issue and manifested itself into something quite horrible.   Clearly, if you can swap the exact SAM profile for one which is merely a close approximation, and get a massive improvement, well, something is badly wrong somewhere.  I wonder if the Blade is the only speaker to suffer this?

My ever helpful dealer (Oxford Audio) has offered to set up their own demo Blades next week with 8.1.2 SAM V2 new week, just to check the issue is repeatable.  Assuming they find the same this should add a little clout with any forthcoming dealings I have with Devialet regarding this issue.  (Which goes to show that there are some very decent Devialet dealers out there - thanks guys!)

Confused,

Have you tried to tune down the amount of bass extension by reducing the percentage of SAM?

Also, if the issue is confirm with the test with your dealer, I think it would be worth contacting Devialet directly and let them know. As you say, it is not impossible that there is a mishap in a profile, in which case it would be worth halving the blades being remeasured. 

Just my two cents.

[Confused]

Dr Tone, Jean Marie. Thanks for the input! However, yesterday I was very frustrated. I'm not actually that keen on this SD card swapping malarkey, but I will make the effort to try anything, just for the peace of mind that the system is as optimised as possible when I'm back in "just enjoy the music mode". When I tried 8.0, this did not work properly due to the SAM & dual mono bugs that Devialet have now owned up to. Thankfully I was too slow and missed 8.1 completely! Yesterday what should have been an hour or so, setting up and swapping SD cards combined with a bit of critical listening, turned in to much more time, frustration and annoyance!

To be clear, 8.1.2 / SAM KEF Blade / D800 sounds DREADFULL. It not a case of the bass being not quire right, maybe some fine tuning needed, but something that with just a few seconds listening become very apparent that something was badly wrong. In the quest for information gathering, I tried more or less everything I could think of! SAM at 0% reduced the issue, but the issue was still there, much the same was true with toggling the subsonic filter on. What did work was turning SAM off, this eliminated the problem, but of course eliminates what should be the benefits of SAM.

What appeared to work well, was running the new KEF Reference 5 SAM profile. Yes I know that running SAM for the wrong speaker might be considered a sin, but the ref does share the same drivers as the Blade, so there is method in my madness. The thing is, that this appears to work well, and all the bass issues I have described are gone. Even the Blade 2 SAM profile was miles better and eliminated the fundamental problem, and the Blade 2 does have different bass drivers, similar design but slightly smaller.

Now if switching from what should be the correct SAM profile to a "close enough" one, eliminates a serious problem, I can only conclude that there is something wrong somewhere in the Blade SAM profile. What I think has happened is that the error in the SAM profile was sat in the background with the 7.x.x firmware, maybe causing a few minor issues occasionally, with SAM 2, these issues have been brought massively into play. I recall the feedback from OAC's SAM Lab training session with Devialet "Dynamic compression is now based upon signal as opposed to volume. You should find deep bass at high levels". My suspicion is that this tweak in SAM 2 has taken an error in the Blade SAM profile and magnified it massively. I believe that some final adjustment with SAM 1 was done "by ear", if true, this could explain why an error in the SAM profile could be dialled out to a degree?

I suspect that the mild issues I have noticed over the last few months may be related to an error in the SAM profile, although SAM was an improvement for me, so I think the profile is maybe 90% of what it should be, with some kind of error in the last 10%.

Obviously there is a degree of speculation in what I have written here, but I am trying to put what information I have together as logically as possible. It will be interesting to see how Devialet respond to this. (I suspect I will be told that Devialet are wonderful and their engineers are working very hard to resolve this matter)

Also, the good people of OAC have offered to try SAM V2 / 8.1.2 on their demo Blades. I think if a Devilaet "Premium" dealer reports that something is wrong, this might just carry a lot more weight than little old me having another whinge. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out, its amassing how complicated things can get with an amplifier, I'm starting to look lovingly at my old Arcam Alpha 10 / 10p's, which are sill in my house, relegated to surround sound duties, I never had so much fun with the Arcams, although they did break down a lot!

Why am I bothering to write all this? Well for one I think it is at least moderately interesting. (other readers may disagree, I know) Also, I'm speculating that the issue with the Blade SAM profile might be a one off error. Then again, it is just possible that it is not. If anyone else has noticed that SAM 2 problematic, then maybe there are more gremlins out there. I don't want to start a wave of panic and paranoia, the most likely thing is that this is unique to the Blades, but I will keep all those that might be interested posted with any significant updates.

Now I have a decision to make, I'm sick to death of messing with SD cards etc, but do I go back to 7.1.3 with a possibly flawed SAM profile (which sounded good!), 8.1.2 with the Ref 5 profile (which also sounds good), or simply leave SAM off until all is resolved. The purist in me says SAM off until resolved, but on a quick listen last night, the Ref 5 SAM profile actually sounded really good, and given that this is an identical driver to the Blade this might make sense from a technical perspective. There is even a long and short port Ref 5 profile to choose from. (Although I suspect I will have gone quite insane by lunchtime, another loving look at the old Alpha 10's, which funnily enough just played music)

To be honest, I'll just be glad when all this is sorted out.

[Rufus McDufus]

Because the SAM config changed from v7 to v8 I guess they would've had to migrate the data formats of the 'old' SAM profiles to the new. I wonder if there was a glitch in that migration with the Blade profile somehow?

[Confused]

Because the SAM config changed from v7 to v8 I guess they would've had to migrate the data formats of the 'old' SAM profiles to the new. I wonder if there was a glitch in that migration with the Blade profile somehow?

Maybe Rufus?  From what I'm hearing I suspect that the issue has always been there lurking in the background, however, the change when running SAM 2 is just so drastic I'm wondering if you might just be right.  I'm just hoping that Devialet know the answer!

[Manoet]

I personally find no sin/no fault in experimenting with SAM profiles designed for a similar, yet altogether different speaker. To me the bigger sin is NOT trying! Today I remain unconvinced that even a well-implemented SAM profile for a given speaker can't or will never be bettered with another, different SAM profile altogether. I think those with better performing profile-speaker configurations are simply less willing to experiment. There's too many finite adjustments in & around SAM to make a specific profile sound best to EVERY pair of ears! And yes I have 1st hand experience with how this black craft is met and/or dealt with here. Its many things but fondness, encouragement or a high level of tolerance for it shouldn't be counted among them! However, that doesn't make them right. I'm happy I kept going in spite of the threat of doom & gloom when faced with the challenge because when you land on a SAM profile that works, even on an unSAM'd speaker that works right... no I mean really Really RIGHT, you know it immediately! It isn't a modest or subtle improvement and it isn't just a boost in bass! Its night & day!! I'm pretty confident as we progress we're also going to find this same success can also be true when thinking outside the box and using a similar but different alternative SAM profile to the recommended one for some SAM'd speakers. I'm not buying into the one-size-fits-all scenario with SAM just yet. Remember, we're talking "ears" here, not telemetry! Just this feeling I have... time will tell.

[Confused]

I personally find no sin/no fault in experimenting with SAM profiles designed for a similar, yet altogether different speaker. To me the bigger sin is NOT trying! Today I remain unconvinced that even a well-implemented SAM profile for a given speaker can't or will never be bettered with another, different SAM profile altogether. I think those with better performing profile-speaker configurations are simply less willing to experiment. There's too many finite adjustments in & around SAM to make a specific profile sound best to EVERY pair of ears! And yes I have 1st hand experience with how this black craft is met and/or dealt with here. Its many things but fondness, encouragement or a high level of tolerance for it shouldn't be counted among them! However, that doesn't make them right. I'm happy I kept going in spite of the threat of doom & gloom when faced with the challenge because when you land on a SAM profile that works, even on an unSAM'd speaker that works right... no I mean really Really RIGHT, you know it immediately! It isn't a modest or subtle improvement and it isn't just a boost in bass! Its night & day!! I'm pretty confident as we progress we're also going to find this same success can also be true when thinking outside the box and using a similar but different alternative SAM profile to the recommended one for some SAM'd speakers. I'm not buying into the one-size-fits-all scenario with SAM just yet. Remember, we're talking "ears" here, not telemetry! Just this feeling I have... time will tell.

Manoet - This is a hifi sin is it not?

Having said that, I have just tried the KEF Reference 5 short and long port SAM profiles with the Blades.  With the Blades and the Ref 5 sharing the same bass drivers I thought that this would at least be a safe bet.  It surprised me a bit, but I could hear quite a significant difference between the long and short port SAM profiles, I thought the difference would be far more subtle.  The funny thing is, with a quick listen, the Ref 5 long port profile does actually sound most excellent on the Blades, and less subjectively, it's given me one of the best REW curves I have ever achieved.  I might give this a try for a bit while I wait for Dev to sort out whatever is wrong with the Blade profile.  I've certainly had enough of SD swapping for a while.

It looks like we're both destined to be committed to hifi hell .......

[Manoet]

Its only hell when its not working. When you achieve the sound you desire its easy to position yourself comfortably and just listen. But wouldn't surprise me at all to find that down the road, even when/if Devialet gets the Blade profile sorted that you still prefer the Ref 5 LP to it. Take comfort in knowing that an inappropriately named profile with better SQ will always win out over an appropriately named, appreciably less desirable sounding profile. Your money, your ears, you decide which profile is right for you/your speakers! Devialet doesn't have to listen to it and doesn't much give a hoot anyway.

[Floyd67]

Dr Tone, Jean Marie.  Thanks for the input!  However, yesterday I was very frustrated.  I'm not actually that keen on this SD card swapping malarkey, but I will make the effort to try anything, just for the peace of mind that the system is as optimised as possible when I'm back in "just enjoy the music mode".  When I tried 8.0, this did not work properly due to the SAM & dual mono bugs that Devialet have now owned up to.  Thankfully I was too slow and missed 8.1 completely!  Yesterday what should have been an hour or so, setting up and swapping SD cards combined with a bit of critical listening, turned in to much more time, frustration and annoyance!

To be clear, 8.1.2 / SAM KEF Blade / D800 sounds DREADFULL.   It not a case of the bass being not quire right, maybe some fine tuning needed, but something that with just a few seconds listening become very apparent that something was badly wrong.  In the quest for information gathering, I tried more or less everything I could think of!  SAM at 0% reduced the issue, but the issue was still there, much the same was true with toggling the subsonic filter on.  What did work was turning SAM off, this eliminated the problem, but of course eliminates what should be the benefits of SAM.



What appeared to work well, was running the new KEF Reference 5 SAM profile.  Yes I know that running SAM for the wrong speaker might be considered a sin, but the ref does share the same drivers as the Blade, so there is method in my madness.  The thing is, that this appears to work well, and all the bass issues I have described are gone.  Even the Blade 2 SAM profile was miles better and eliminated the fundamental problem, and the Blade 2 does have different bass drivers, similar design but slightly smaller.

Now if switching from what should be the correct SAM profile to a "close enough" one, eliminates a serious problem, I can only conclude that there is something wrong somewhere in the Blade SAM profile.  What I think has happened is that the error in the SAM profile was sat in the background with the 7.x.x firmware, maybe causing a few minor issues occasionally, with SAM 2, these issues have been brought massively into play.  I recall the feedback from OAC's SAM Lab training session with Devialet "Dynamic compression is now based upon signal as opposed to volume. You should find deep bass at high levels".  My suspicion is that this tweak in SAM 2 has taken an error in the Blade SAM profile and magnified it massively.  I believe that some final adjustment with SAM 1 was done "by ear", if true, this could explain why an error in the SAM profile could be dialled out to a degree?

I suspect that the mild issues I have noticed over the last few months may be related to an error in the SAM profile, although SAM was an improvement for me, so I think the profile is maybe 90% of what it should be, with some kind of error in the last 10%.

Obviously there is a degree of speculation in what I have written here, but I am trying to put what information I have together as logically as possible.  It will be interesting to see how Devialet respond to this.  (I suspect I will be told that Devialet are wonderful and their engineers are working very hard to resolve this matter)

Also, the good people of OAC have offered to try SAM V2 / 8.1.2 on their demo Blades.  I think if a Devilaet "Premium" dealer reports that something is wrong, this might just carry a lot more weight than little old me having another whinge.  It will be interesting to see how this one pans out, its amassing how complicated things can get with an amplifier, I'm starting to look lovingly at my old Arcam Alpha 10 / 10p's, which are sill in my house, relegated to surround sound duties, I never had so much fun with the Arcams, although they did break down a lot!

Why am I bothering to write all this?  Well for one I think it is at least moderately interesting.  (other readers may disagree, I know)  Also, I'm speculating that the issue with the Blade SAM profile might be a one off error.  Then again, it is just possible that it is not.  If anyone else has noticed that SAM 2 problematic, then maybe there are more gremlins out there.  I don't want to start a wave of panic and paranoia, the most likely thing is that this is unique to the Blades, but I will keep all those that might be interested posted with any significant updates.

Now I have a decision to make, I'm sick to death of messing with SD cards etc, but do I go back to 7.1.3 with a possibly flawed SAM profile (which sounded good!), 8.1.2 with the Ref 5 profile (which also sounds good), or simply leave SAM off until all is resolved.  The purist in me says SAM off until resolved, but on a quick listen last night, the Ref 5 SAM profile actually sounded really good, and given that this is an identical driver to the Blade this might make sense from a technical perspective.  There is even a long and short port Ref 5 profile to choose from.  (Although I suspect I will have gone quite insane by lunchtime, another loving look at the old Alpha 10's, which funnily enough just played music)

To be honest, I'll just be glad when all this is sorted out.

To some extent I can empathise with you. Software in my experience is rarely perfect and yes it's a bit of a ball ache to faff around with, but at least Devialet offer us the flexibility and choice of what FW to use. You wouldn't get that with many other manufacturers.

[blair.athol]

Hey friends, might be not everyone agrees but I am just listening to Angus & Julia Stone's album Down the Way via Ethernet from my Mac and I feel the magic of 7.1.3 is back with 8.1.2.