Headphones and the Devialet

[Elztalbiker]

Connected with USB via Mac/Pc = Roon, but not Roon ready, sorry


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[Womaz]

I am also asking for help on Head-Fi, this is a reply I got this morning

You can use RCA-to-XLR passive adapters to inject audio signal from Devialet to C3X.

[b]If you already have balanced headphones, then it could be an advantage for you to use C3X's balanced headphones output. Usually, with decent headphones cables, the impedance of headphones cables is quite low and output sound on both balanced and unbalanced should be about the same (ground wire should have less than 0.5 Ohms, you could measure with a good DMM).[/b]

So it looks like another box? Not keen on this. I have to decide whether a Balanced connection is really that important. If I want to continue to have the 200 in the headphone chain I think its going to make it complicated. My feeling is I think I do want to keep the Devialet in the chain.

Thanks for the amp suggestions but I have done a LOT of reading about the amps and I do have a shortlist, but the Burson Conductor 3R or 3XR really appeals
The amp I have is also very well regarded and I may even stick with this for now.

[thumb5]

If I understood correctly, you're already using balanced output to your headphones, as that's independent of what goes into the headphone amp.

If you want to keep the 200 in the chain, then you'll have these options:

1. use RCA-to-RCA cables from the 200's stereo analog pre-amp outputs into single-ended analog inputs on your headphone amp
   
2. use RCA-to-XLR cables ("passive adapters") from the 200's stereo analog pre-amp outputs into balanced analog inputs on your headphone amp
   
3. use RCA cables from the 200's stereo analog pre-amp outputs into an active or transformer-based single-ended to balanced converter, then XLR cables from the converter into balanced analog inputs on your headphone amp
   
4. configure your 200 to produce a digital output on one of the RCA sockets then use RCA-to-RCA cable from that digital output into a co-ax digital input on your headphone amp
   

Option (1) is what you're doing at the moment, if I read your posts correctly.  Pretty straightforward and involves no extra boxes or unusual cables.  The fact that your headphone amp receives a single-ended rather than balanced input is probably of no real consequence for sound quality, unless it does something strange internally.

Option (2) is (I think) only worthwhile if your headphone amp has a noticeably different sound quality when using the balanced inputs, which would be unusual and surprising but not impossible.  RCA-to-XLR cables are not too hard to find but it does add cost especially if you like "boutique" cables.  An alternative would be to use RCA cables with a pair of something like the Neutrik RCA-to-XLR adapters.  Bear in mind that this still doesn't really give you "balanced" operation but is just a way of using the balanced inputs to your headphone amp with what it still a single-ended signal from the 200.

Option (3) is would give you something closer to balanced operation although at the cost of the extra adapter boxes, which might need to be powered (if they're active rather than based on transformers).  This is going to be more expensive again because apart from the cost of the adapters you'd also need both RCA cables between the 200 and the adapters and XLR cables from the adapter to your headphone amp.  As mentioned previously the adapters may themselves affect the sound quality so it will be hard to assess whether this is an improvement until you put the whole thing together.

Option (4) is probably the simplest and most effective approach provided your headphone amp has a co-ax digital input.  With this approach you don't have to worry about balanced or unbalanced input to the headphone amp.  Sound quality will depend to some extent on how the DAC in the headphone amp compares to the pre-amp output DAC in the Devialet.

In short, I'd suggest either option (1) or option (4) depending on the capabilities of your headphone amp.

Looking at the specs for the Burson Conductor 3 series helps to narrow down the options further:

• only the model 3R has line-level analog inputs (on RCA connectors) so you'd need to use that model if you want to use option (1)
  
• only the model 3XR has line-level balanced analog inputs (on XLR connectors), so you'd need to use that model if you choose options (2) or (3)
  
• all four models have co-ax digital input so could be used with option (4)
  

If I were going to build a system with an Expert 200 as a "pre-amp" to a Conductor 3, I'd choose option (4) unless Burson strongly advise using analog inputs, in which case I'd use option (1) which would limit my choice to the 3R model.  Option (4) would allow any of the Conductor 3 models to be used.

Also, all four models have a USB input so could be connected directly to your Nucleus if you wanted to take the 200 out of the chain.

Hope that's helpful!

[Womaz]

Ian thanks again for the very comprehensive post.
A lot of what you say about the Burson models I had already worked out with some extensive reading -)

I am now asking myself if having a balanced input to my amp that important?
If there is little difference to sound quality then why do people prefer the Balanced option.

Option 1 - yes this is what I am doing now , so for 5 years I have had a balanced Tauris amp not set up as a Balanced amp and I did not even know ;-)
I can just set the Burson up exactly the same and this would then be the 3R which is £400 cheaper too.

Option 2 - sounds like a waste of time

Option 3 - I like to keep things simple , so this does not appeal. I would also be introducing more boxes or adaptors which may even affect the sound quality too, so for me this is not an option

Option 4 - I will explore this. I would assume its fairly simple and would mean using the Configurator to do this. This fills me with dread but I am sure I could do this

So for me after discounting options 2 and 3, then only option 4 will give me full balanced operation. is this correct?

You also mention about using the Devialet as a pre-amp. I assume this is what I am doing now with the 200 and the Taurus amp? The Taurus has no DAC so I have always assumed the 200 is doing some sort of digital to analogue conversion.

One last thing. Nucleus straight to the Burson . Yes it can be by USB but both USB inputs are being used by me right now. One for back ups and one connects to the Devialet. So I would have to find another way to perform Roon Back ups. Again not ideal. I am not sure how i would use the Roon Control app then too?

A lot to think about and I will explore option 4 and once again many thanks

[thumb5]

...
Option 4 - I will explore this. I would assume its fairly simple and would mean using the Configurator to do this.  This fills me with dread but I am sure I could do this

It should be fairly straightforward, just one change to make.

So for me after discounting options 2 and 3, then only option 4 will give me full balanced operation. is this correct?

Bearing in mind that "balanced" doesn't really apply to the digital input, it will depend on the internal design of the headphone amp -- maybe Burson can give you some advice on that.

You also mention about using the Devialet as a pre-amp. I assume this is what I am doing now with the 200 and the Taurus amp? The Taurus has no DAC so I have always assumed the 200 is doing some sort of digital to analogue conversion.

Exactly.  The 200 is using an internal DAC to convert the digital signal from Roon/Nucleus into the analog pre-amp output that goes to the Taurus.

One last thing. Nucleus straight to the Burson . Yes it can be by USB but both USB inputs are being used by me right now. One for back ups and one connects to the Devialet. So I would have to find another way to perform Roon Back ups. Again not ideal. I am not sure how i would use the Roon Control app then too?

Adding a USB hub would allow you to connect to the 200, a headphone amp and a mass storage device for back-ups.

In that configuration the Roon control app would show you two audio zones, one being your 200 and the other being the headphone amp.  After selecting which zone you want to play music on, it should work exactly as it does now whether you've selected the 200 or the headphone amp as your current zone.

A lot to think about and I will explore option 4 and once again many thanks

You're welcome -- and looking forward to hearing what you decide.

[Womaz]

A USB hub? This would be another box though? Yes small , but another box.
I think the decision I have to make first is do i want the 200 in the chain?
I think I do. so again we are back at option 1 as I am doing now. if I go for the Burson then option 4 becomes a possibility.
Option 4 is not possible with my current Taurus amp.

Once again thanks Ian

PS I am now going to explore whether I can connect the Nucleus to my Taurus directly ;-)

[Womaz]

Forget the PS .........clearly no point in exploring this as there will be no Digital to analogue conversion ;--)

[Axel]

Forget the PS .........clearly no point in exploring this as there will be no Digital to analogue conversion ;--)

I don’t know whether this will help you, but when I was setting up my Taurus, I tried listening to CD, SACD and BluRay from my Oppo directly to the Taurus using XLR-XLR and RCA-RCA. I couldn’t detect any difference in sound quality.
I went with XLR in the end, but only because I needed the RCA inputs on the Taurus  for connection to the Devialet.

[Womaz]

@Womaz - hello again!

It looks to me as though the Taurus only has analog input, so I expect you have configured your 200 to use two RCA sockets as a stereo analog pre-amp output.  Since the 200 is receiving digital data from the Nucleus, it must be using an internal DAC to convert to analog.  (Note: this is not the same DAC that drives the ADH power amplifier section to which the loudspeakers are connected.)

You could re-configure the Devialet to give you a digital (S/P-DIF) output on one of the RCA sockets instead of the analog output.  That would enable you to connect an external DAC which could then send an analog signal to the Taurus.

The first question is whether the new DAC would sound better to you than the internal DAC the 200 uses to generate the analog pre-amp output.  If so, is it worth the cost and extra box count?  As usual I'd say that only you can decide, and probably only by getting a demonstration to compare the two ways of doing it.

Incidentally if you're thinking of buying another box, why not consider a headphone amp with a digital input?  Or possibly a Roon-Ready DAC that would act as its own endpoint without depending on your Devialet?

I should have asked: is your Nucleus physically close to where you want your headphone amp to sit?  For example, could you connect USB from the Nucleus to a DAC or digital-capable headphone amp?

Forget the PS .........clearly no point in exploring this as there will be no Digital to analogue conversion ;--)

I don’t know whether this will help you, but when I was setting up my Taurus, I tried listening to CD, SACD and BluRay from my Oppo directly to the Taurus using XLR-XLR and RCA-RCA. I couldn’t detect any difference in sound quality.
I went with XLR in the end, but only because I needed the RCA inputs on the Taurus  for connection to the Devialet.

Thanks for the post. Yes I think I have come to the conclusion that Balanced would be nice, but its not a game changer for me.

[Womaz]

Ok I am trying to understand all of this and I am keen to learn what exactly my 200 is doing in my headphone chain. I think if i can understand this more then it will help in my decision making progress as I am considering taking the 200 out of the chain. Indeed with a house move planned it may even have to.

So is my Devialet doing the same job with my Headphone amp as it is doing with my speakers? If it is then I am not sure I should even be considering taking it out of the chain. Or is it merely sending the music to my Taurus headphone amp and is it my Taurus doing the work and giving me the sound quality.

I know the 200 is doing the digital to analogue conversion in some shape or form.
It is doing something as when i took it out of the chain for a little experiment the results were not as good as when it was in.