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Impressed by firmware 7.1.3
#11
One more thing about SAM and why you're noticing a big difference even with it set to 0%.

I read somewhere the other day, can't remember where, that phase correction in the bass can have the effect of providing up to an extra half octave of extension just on it's own and phase correction is what you're getting at the 0% setting.

Bass drivers tend to have a varying phase shift at different frequencies, just check the phase and impedance test charts in Stereophile's speaker measurements and you can see just how much the phase can vary over the bass frequencies. Now phase changes over time and ideally we would want to have peak amplitude in the phase cycle for the bass note at the time the initial transient attack of the note arrives at our ears, which also means we don't want phase shift in the bass driver but that's not something most (any?) speakers can deliver. After the initial transient attack, the level of the note starts to drop as the note dies away so we hear the note decaying into silence but the phase of the sound wave also changes over time and if we weren't getting peak amplitude with the initial transient attack, the peak amplitude in the phase cycle will occur a fraction of a second later while the note is decaying but we tend to take a lot of our cues for how loud the note is from the initial transient attack and because the amplitude of that was lower than it should have been because of the driver's phase error, the sound pressure level will be reduced and sound pressure level is what we experience as loudness. Basically this means we won't hear the note sounding quite as loud as it should sound. Correcting the phase errors for the bass driver should therefore result in louder transient attacks so we hear louder bass and because the level of the bass is higher down where the speaker normally starts to roll off, we can hear the frequencies down there a little better so we notice more bass extension, or at least that's how I think phase correction at bass frequencies can work to deliver more bass extension.

As I said, the comment I read said that phase correction can deliver up to half an octave of additional extension. Different speakers have different amounts of phase shift as the charts in Stereophile's tests show, and of course different speakers roll off at different frequencies as well so the amount of added bass extension you will notice with SAM set to 0% will vary depending on your speaker's amount of phase shift in the bass and also the point at which it starts to roll off. The phase shift at the frequency where your speakers start to roll off may be large enough for phase correction to produce a quite noticeable effect for you but you may also find that others may not notice it as much as you do. When we're very familiar with the sound of our speakers, small changes can be quite noticeable for us but less noticeable to others who don't have that familiarity.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#12
Thanks for that reply David. Through experimentation, I've found a new SAM setting that works well for me. In the config file, I put in a 2nd order high pass filter at 40hz. The reason is SAM works up to 150hz, and I've noticed that turning up SAM % gives me that warm sound that I like. But it would also result in too much bass extension. On my speakers, the Venere 3.0's, very low bass just doesn't sound very good, even with SAM. The speakers are rated down to 38hz, and even with it's phase correction SAM cannot produce enjoyable bass below this for me. Using a frequency sweep tone, I can tell that SAM does indeed create sound down to about 25hz, but it's not musical. It reminds me of the "one-note" response of a very cheap subwoofer. So I would compromise and use SAM at 0% or sometimes up to 50%.

With the high-pass filter at 40hz and SAM at 100%, I get the best of both worlds. The increased warmth from SAM's effect up to 150hz, and none of the one-note bass. I'm a happy camper!


EDIT: still experimenting with the high-pass filter. It actually sounds best at about 35hz.
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#13
I liked SAM up to the time when I got the CI board upgrade for my 130 and installed the new firmware. Since then I've had mixed feelings every time I use it. I don't find it gives me a warm sound, in fact the opposite. I get cleaner and tighter bass with more extension but instruments like acoustic double bass start to lose the 'woodiness' of their tone and can start to sound a little too 'tight' for me. I'm currently using it at 10% and I'm enjoying the clarity and extension but I have mixed feelings about the tonal impact on things like double bass. I may reduce the % setting a little more, or even disable it again.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#14
(25-Sep-2018, 08:01)David A Wrote: I liked SAM up to the time when I got the CI board upgrade for my 130 and installed the new firmware. Since then I've had mixed feelings every time I use it. I don't find it gives me a warm sound, in fact the opposite. I get cleaner and tighter bass with more extension but instruments like acoustic double bass start to lose the 'woodiness' of their tone and can start to sound a little too 'tight' for me. I'm currently using it at 10% and I'm enjoying the clarity and extension but I have mixed feelings about the tonal impact on things like double bass. I may reduce the % setting a little more, or even disable it again.

I can hear what you are saying, on some tracks where the focus is in the lower midrange/upper bass, SAM has a "wired the speakers out of phase" feeling. Listening to Jacqueline Du Pre on the cello and I prefer it off for her.
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#15
Is this firmware the most recent from Devialet?

The firmware I saw on the website is dated 9th July and has a different reference

Or am I looking at the incorrect product?
               Cape Town - South Africa, the home of good wine
Mercury Pi2 & Gentoo,  Expert 440PRO CI.  4Tb SSD.  ET LF8bs, B&W AS700 sub.  2 x Dachshunds
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#16
The 7.1.3 is rather old and not compatible with CI Pro Experts. I used it for a long time on my 250 and 250 Pro. Ended up preferring 10.1.0 (the latest version before Devialet started the CI upgrades) on my 250 Pro. 7.1.3 had a lot going for it though..
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Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#17
(19-Sep-2018, 20:26)tacobellbiker Wrote: I decided to give 7.1.3 a go after reading about it on this forum. I wanted to briefly share my thoughts. But most of all my thanks, because I wouldn't have known about or been able to acquire this firmware without this forum.

For reference, my setup is a 120 previously running 10.1.0 and Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 speakers in a studio apartment measuring roughly 23' x 21' x 8'. There are GIK Soffit bass traps at the four corners. Cables are Shunyata Venom and Audioquest Vodka. I use Ethernet and AIR 3.0.4. Source is a PC running Foobar (WASAPI). 

I use SAM at 25%. (One weird thing I've noticed about SAM is that it makes a big difference even at 0%.) 

The change I noticed right away was the disappearance of the tweeters. Previously, I always felt like I could hear the tweeters playing separately from the mid-range driver. With 7.1.3, the overall sound becomes cohesive, and the drivers blend into one another. The imaging is 3D, holographic, floating in a space seemingly outside of the dimensions of my room.

Other words I would use to describe 7.1.3. are natural, organic, warm, lush, liquid, and colored. It's colored, not neutral, but I like that.

If there is a trade off, I think there is less bass than before, and it is not as well controlled. The Venere 3.0 speakers have kind of flabby, lazy bass to begin with, so the new firmware does exacerbate that. 

But bass was never my priority. I'm a midrange and 3D vocal imaging guy, and I'm blown away by this older firmware. 

I'm glad I stumbled on this forum a few days ago. This tweak has put a big grin on my face, and it cost zero dollars. Smile

Can you pls share with me the firmware 7.1.3. I want to give a try.
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#18
(28-Dec-2021, 07:57)h9151105 Wrote: Can you pls share with me the firmware 7.1.3. I want to give a try.

Take a look here: https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...re-Archive
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Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#19
(28-Dec-2021, 09:10)ogs Wrote:
(28-Dec-2021, 07:57)h9151105 Wrote: Can you pls share with me the firmware 7.1.3. I want to give a try.

Take a look here: https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...re-Archive

Unfortunetly I cannot open it. Do you have another source?
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#20
That is the only source I'm afraid. When you say 'cannot open', is that the link or Google drive?
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Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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