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Last Fault A 4098 OVER VOLTAGE
#51
(06-Feb-2019, 22:33)haber Wrote: Yes, I do have the CI board, and the latest firmware.
Same for me with a 440 and I still get it from time to time. Fixed in the next release has been promised before for this bug, how very Devialet.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#52
So this error seems to only be occurring on the PRO units?
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#53
It's not always an error. The over voltage protection is there for a reason. It's an error if there isn't overly high voltage on your line. It's not an error if the line voltage is too high.

I used to get the problem with some frequency prior to getting the CI board upgrade. I've had it since then, I think only once, and I have no way of telling whether that was because of a voltage spike on the line. The bug is responsible for the protection triggering when it shouldn't and fixing the bug doesn't mean that you'll never get the problem. You'll still get a shutdown and this error message if the line voltage is high enough to trigger the protection.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#54
(07-Feb-2019, 06:27)David A Wrote: It's not always an error. The over voltage protection is there for a reason. It's an error if there isn't overly high voltage on your line. It's not an error if the line voltage is too high.

I used to get the problem with some frequency prior to getting the CI board upgrade. I've had it since then, I think only once, and I have no way of telling whether that was because of a voltage spike on the line. The bug is responsible for the protection triggering when it shouldn't and fixing the bug doesn't mean that you'll never get the problem. You'll still get a shutdown and this error message if the line voltage is high enough to trigger the protection.
This isn't caused by the input mains voltage, it's an internal error.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#55
(07-Feb-2019, 21:51)Soniclife Wrote:
(07-Feb-2019, 06:27)David A Wrote: It's not always an error. The over voltage protection is there for a reason. It's an error if there isn't overly high voltage on your line. It's not an error if the line voltage is too high.

I used to get the problem with some frequency prior to getting the CI board upgrade. I've had it since then, I think only once, and I have no way of telling whether that was because of a voltage spike on the line. The bug is responsible for the protection triggering when it shouldn't and fixing the bug doesn't mean that you'll never get the problem. You'll still get a shutdown and this error message if the line voltage is high enough to trigger the protection.
This isn't caused by the input mains voltage, it's an internal error.

Sometimes it is the input mains voltage and it's hard to tell when it's the voltage and when it's an internal error. Unless you've got a visible readout of incoming voltage that you're watching when the protection triggers, you have no idea whether the cause of the fault was incoming voltage or the internal error.

Before I got the CI board upgrade with the new OS and firmware I probably had this fault message about 10 or 12 times in 10 months. I've had it once since then and I have no way of knowing what the incoming voltage was when I had the fault. In December last year I got a PS Audio P12 which provides voltage regulation and has a screen which displays my incoming voltage. I'm in Australia so my Devialet is intended to run at 220V or so. The Australian standard voltage is 230V. The P12 has always shown my incoming voltage as being higher than 240V, usually more than 245V, and occasionally higher than 250V. I've got the P12 set to deliver output voltage of 230V and I haven't had this fault since getting the P12.

I believe many if not most of the faults I had before getting the CI board upgrade with the new firmware were due to the bug but I can't be sure that every one of the faults was due to the bug. With only 1 fault event since then I have no idea whether the cause of that fault was the bug or an actual high voltage condition but from what I've seen with the display on the P12 since getting it, I think it's quite possible that the fault I had after getting the CI board was due to incoming high voltage since I have seen incoming voltage readings of higher than 250V.

I didn't say that there wasn't a bug which was causing this fault to occur. What I said was that if there is a high incoming voltage condition the protection may trigger and you will see this error message. Fixing the bug, and I think it has been fixed, won't stop the voltage protection from shutting the amp down in a high incoming voltage condition so people may still see this error message. They just won't be seeing it because of the bug.

If you have evidence that the reason for the shutdown wasn't a high voltage condition then it's obviously been caused by a bug but unless you're actually watching a display showing what the incoming voltage is at the time the shutdown occurs there's no evidence to show that there wasn't a high voltage condition triggering the shutdown and you have no way of knowing for certain whether it was caused by the bug or not.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#56
I have monitored the voltage when the bug occured, and it was 237v, so I'm confident that the issue is not incoming supply voltage. I gave some logic to why I am convinced it's not supply voltage somewhere else in this thread, but I'll add some other thoughts to why it's not.

I could make this happen at will (give or take 30 mins) with specific settings, but just changing the SAM % a tiny bit would make it very infrequent. When Devialet support sent me a 440 to test this with I made it go wrong with my bad settings very quickly.

I don't believe a true mains overvoltage that was detected would behave like it does, I would expect the amp to shut down, not gracefully mute for a second and them continue.

It affects people in 120v places, not just 240v countries, but the units are universal and auto adjusting.

I also get a lot less of these since the CI board, and can no longer make it happen at will, they could have changed something in the upgrade that they have not spoken about, but the firmware fix for this was promised as part of the CI firmware, so it's more likely that.

Is over 250v legal for Australia, I found the following that suggests it may well be.
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r10/nsw/subpages...ltages.pdf
The UK is nominaly 230v, but it's really 240v, with 253v being the top of the legal range, and it seems to be well regulated where I live with little variation.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#57
I've had a music drop-out today on my O'dA (now 1000 Pro with CI board) and got the fault indicator. It dropped out in the right channel and the fault was in the companion (right channel) only. So I am with @Soniclife , above. It's not an actual voltage supply problem. It's something inside the amp.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#58
OK, I accept the 2 posts above but I still think the following things need to be considered:

1- Soniclife: you said the voltage when the bug occurred was 237 V. Was that immediately before the shutdown or when you checked the voltage immediately after the shutdown. If it was after the shutdown, that doesn't tell us what the voltage was when the shutdown was triggered. There could have been a brief spike on the line which triggered it and the voltage dropped back to within acceptable limits immediately after the spike and before you got the chance to check the voltage. The problem with knowing the voltage at the moment the shutdown is triggered is that we usually are not watching the voltage when we're listening to music, we may check it every now and then for some reason. I used to check my voltage every now and then after getting my P12 just to see what was happening on the line, what the distortion on the incoming line was and what the distortion was on the P12's output just to get a feel for what my incoming power was like and how the P12 was working but after a week or so I stopped and now check only very rarely. Most of the time now I have the display turned off because it's distracting.

2- Pim: I don't think a dropout in one channel of a dual mono setup necessarily proves the cause is a bug. No 2 amps are ever going to be perfectly identical. The protection may be designed to trigger at a given voltage but do both amps measure identical voltages? Take 2 different measuring instruments and measure the same thing simultaneously and you will usually see a slightly different reading, simply because of individual variations in the instruments. The tighter the tolerances for the instruments are, the smaller the variation but they still may not measure perfectly identically. One amp may measure x V and the other may measure x+1 V. The extra volt that one measures may be the difference between it triggering and the other not. I used to work in health and safety where some things needed to get measured and the reliability of measurements could be a problem since any measurement which could be made always had a specified margin for error. Totally accurate and identical measurement by 2 different instruments is extremely difficult to obtain.

3- All of this discussion is based on an assumption that there are only 2 possibilities, that the fault is being triggered by the firmware bug or that it's being triggered by an over voltage condition. There is always a 3rd possibility, that it is being triggered by some other problem unrelated to the bug and other than an over voltage condition. We know that the bug was causing the problem for a lot of people at one point in time and we know that the shutdown with this error message occurs much less frequently now. That tends to indicate that the bug was fixed but it may not have been fixed perfectly so it still occurs though much less frequently, or another problem might cause the shutdown every now and then in the absence of an over voltage condition.

As I said, it's hard for us to know that when the shutdown occurs, there isn't an over voltage condition because we would need to know what the voltage is at the moment of shutdown to be able to say that it was or was not an over voltage condition causing it. Checking the voltage a few seconds later doesn't tell us what the voltage was at the moment the shutdown was triggered. If the voltage is high a few seconds after the shutdown, then it's probably over voltage but if it isn't high, then it may have been a brief spike in voltage, now over, that triggered it. Knowing for certain that it wasn't over voltage is difficult. I think we have good reason to believe that something was done in the new firmware for the CI board to solve the bug that Devialet acknowledged because people report the problem far less frequently now. That doesn't mean that the bug was perfectly fixed or that there isn't some other fault that occasionally triggers the voltage protection function incorrectly. Pim has to be right when he says that "It's something inside the amp" but the whole voltage protection circuit and firmware is inside the amp, His 2 amps may not act absolutely identically because of slight differences, even though both are within specification because specifications are always stated as being within a certain +/- range in which case the shutdown may trigger in one amp but not the other because of over voltage on the line so while the cause in his case can genuinely be said to be inside the amp, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with the amp involved. Then again, the original bug may not have been fixed perfectly and still can cause problems o occasionally, or there could be another and yet unidentified problem which occasionally causes problems and in both those cases the cause is inside the amp.

I'm not saying that both of you are wrong and that it isn't the bug that was acknowledged. I'm simply saying that none of us can prove that the cause was the bug because there are other possibilities and we simply don't have the kind of evidence we need to say with certainty that it's one thing or another. I think we can say, given the much lower frequency of reports in recent months, that Devialet did do something to fix the bug they acknowledged, whether or not they managed to eliminate it completely.

Finally, Pim, the table in your link really shows up one aspect of the problem for manufacturers. Look at all of the differences across states and the Australian standard. There is no uniformity in what is permitted within Australia. I don't know what level Devialet set for the trigger voltage for the protection but it does not have to be the over voltage limit shown for any state in that chart. They're going to set it at a level they think it should be set at to protect their product and that could be 250 V or 260 V or anything they like above the nominal voltage. I think it has to be something above 250V but I don't know how much higher Devialet think is acceptable. We've got a national standard in Australia and every state has their own standard which differs from the Australian standard to some degree. Every country has its own standard and you can bet they all don't agree. The Australian standard was intended to provide uniformity with our trading partners but none of our systems implement it correctly and you can bet there are variations in standard across those trading partners our Australian standard was designed to be uniform with. You tell me what a manufacturer should set for an over voltage limit to protect their products for countries with a nominal 220/230/240 V power grid.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#59
I'm with David A., regarding the possible causes of this issue. While there may exist some FW bug (which is exacerbated by certain SAM settings), in my case, the problem almost always occurs around certain times (5:30 and 11:15 pm) - so even if it's a FW/power supply bug, the fault is triggered by some external objective conditions.
It also puzzled me that the fault occurs with 120V, until I was told that the amp graduates itself for a certain voltage, and then responds to voltage deviations.
All in all, I've recently bought an AVR (automatic voltage regulator). I'll keep you posted.
JRiver MC20 --> Devialet 250 Pro --> KEF Blades II
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#60
I'm thrilled to report that the Voltage Regulator did NOT solve the problem in the least, and made it worse if anything. The fault occurred the very next day after plugging it, and the Regulator did not as much as blink, to indicate abnormal voltage.
I'm completely at a loss, though, as to why for me the faults always happen in the evening around the mentioned times, and hardly ever in the morning, or during the day. What can possibly be going on in the mains, if it's not voltage spikes?
JRiver MC20 --> Devialet 250 Pro --> KEF Blades II
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