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Load resistance and capacitance for 120 and 140 pro?
#1
Hi just to see if anyone knows the default load resistance and capacitance for both MC and MM cartridges in 120 and 140 pro?

I understand that the phono stages in these two models are less advanced and configurable than the higher models in which the load resistance and capacitance can be set manually. But since they can be used as phono stage for both MM and MC cartridges, there must some default (maybe fixed?) settings.

My guess is:

For MM cartridge: load resistance should be 47Kohm, capacitance unknown...

For MC cartridges: load resistance somwhere between 100 to 200 ohm? capacitance unknown...

Anyone has any ideas?

Thanks!

PS: I emailed the customer service and the reply is: upgrading so you can see the settings...didn’t address my question at all...
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#2
(15-Jun-2019, 14:49)mjledme Wrote: Hi just to see if anyone knows the default load resistance and capacitance for both MC and MM cartridges in 120 and 140 pro?

I understand that the phono stages in these two models are less advanced and configurable than the higher models in which the load resistance and capacitance can be set manually. But since they can be used as phono stage for both MM and MC cartridges, there must some default (maybe fixed?) settings.

My guess is:

For MM cartridge: load resistance should be 47Kohm, capacitance unknown...

For MC cartridges: load resistance somwhere between 100 to 200 ohm? capacitance unknown...

Anyone has any ideas?



Thanks!

PS: I emailed the customer service and the reply is: upgrading so you can see the settings...didn’t address my question at all...

Hi, but she also has pitfalls.
Thus, the WiFi module interfered with rhythmic popping the phono mode, as soon as it was
was looking for a radio partner.
We put it without further ado
Silent, which ended the spook.
Nevertheless, MM sound customers sounded - we put Orto-
fons Vinylmaster Silver as well
the Virtuoso V2 from Clearaudio - quite dark;  not undynamic, but slightly cloudy, tough, as if braked, while MC scanners were completely free, disengaged and played with their usual freshness.
If we initially suspected a high capacity to protect against RF intrusion, which leaves MMs busy and dull, as culprits, the laboratory showed that the phono input has hardly any capacitive load.  Rather, probably the low input resistance is responsible for the MM-Schlappe.  At just over 16 kilohms, it is well below the "norm" of 47 kOhm.
When switching to MC, this value did not change - the two larger models are adaptable in terms of resistance and capacitance - so one should choose a system that does not become glazed or pointed at such comparatively high termination.  "Excerpt from the German magazine Stereo.  The le 120 was tested. Rolleyes

https://www.audio-components.de/assets/U...tereo2.pdf
Devialet 220Pro/CI, B&W 802 D3, Linn Klimax DS/Katalyst, Burmester 089 CD, Melco N1ZS/2A + D100, Cable Audioquest (NRG-10,Diamond,K2,Yukon,Coffee etc.), iPad-Pro, KECES P8 Dual, Qobuz Studio, AQVOX-SE Switch
IsoTek: 2 x EVO3 Genesis One, EVO3 Titan One, EVO3 Syncro 
Roon: Nucleus+, Roon-Rock (Intel Nuc7i7bnh,RAM 16GB), Roon Lifetime                                                                                                                
Germany / Bavaria
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#3
(15-Jun-2019, 19:54)K4680 Wrote:
(15-Jun-2019, 14:49)mjledme Wrote: Hi just to see if anyone knows the default load resistance and capacitance for both MC and MM cartridges in 120 and 140 pro?

I understand that the phono stages in these two models are less advanced and configurable than the higher models in which the load resistance and capacitance can be set manually. But since they can be used as phono stage for both MM and MC cartridges, there must some default (maybe fixed?) settings.

My guess is:

For MM cartridge: load resistance should be 47Kohm, capacitance unknown...

For MC cartridges: load resistance somwhere between 100 to 200 ohm? capacitance unknown...

Anyone has any ideas?



Thanks!

PS: I emailed the customer service and the reply is: upgrading so you can see the settings...didn’t address my question at all...

Hi, but she also has pitfalls.
Thus, the WiFi module interfered with rhythmic popping the phono mode, as soon as it was
was looking for a radio partner.
We put it without further ado
Silent, which ended the spook.
Nevertheless, MM sound customers sounded - we put Orto-
fons Vinylmaster Silver as well
the Virtuoso V2 from Clearaudio - quite dark;  not undynamic, but slightly cloudy, tough, as if braked, while MC scanners were completely free, disengaged and played with their usual freshness.
If we initially suspected a high capacity to protect against RF intrusion, which leaves MMs busy and dull, as culprits, the laboratory showed that the phono input has hardly any capacitive load.  Rather, probably the low input resistance is responsible for the MM-Schlappe.  At just over 16 kilohms, it is well below the "norm" of 47 kOhm.
When switching to MC, this value did not change - the two larger models are adaptable in terms of resistance and capacitance - so one should choose a system that does not become glazed or pointed at such comparatively high termination.  "Excerpt from the German magazine Stereo.  The le 120 was tested. Rolleyes

https://www.audio-components.de/assets/U...tereo2.pdf

Hi thank you very much mate! Wish I knew German so that I can understand the rest of it lol. 

So basically it’s 16 kOhms and almost zero pF for both MM and MC cartridges?

In this case, won’t the sound be distorted? Take my Benz Micro Ace SL for example (0.4mV output MC, impedance 120 Ohms, recommended loading range greater than 100 Ohms). On my other system with aphono preamp and tube amp, I set the loading at 120 Ohms as a rule of thumb (10 times the cartridge impedance). In Devialet 120 Isn’t the 16 kOhms too high for my 100 Ohm cartridge? Although theoretically it’s greater than 100 Ohms? Won’t the ideal frequency response be distorted especially in the higher frequencies?

From http://www.extremephono.com/Loading.htm

Fig. 1 shows the effect of varying the resistive load on an MC cartridge. The potential deviation from a linear response by a wrong loading resistance can be massive.

[Image: Loadin1.gif]
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#4
(16-Jun-2019, 00:28)mjledme Wrote:
(15-Jun-2019, 19:54)K4680 Wrote:
(15-Jun-2019, 14:49)mjledme Wrote: Hi just to see if anyone knows the default load resistance and capacitance for both MC and MM cartridges in 120 and 140 pro?

I understand that the phono stages in these two models are less advanced and configurable than the higher models in which the load resistance and capacitance can be set manually. But since they can be used as phono stage for both MM and MC cartridges, there must some default (maybe fixed?) settings.

My guess is:

For MM cartridge: load resistance should be 47Kohm, capacitance unknown...

For MC cartridges: load resistance somwhere between 100 to 200 ohm? capacitance unknown...

Anyone has any ideas?



Thanks!

PS: I emailed the customer service and the reply is: upgrading so you can see the settings...didn’t address my question at all...

Hi, but she also has pitfalls.
Thus, the WiFi module interfered with rhythmic popping the phono mode, as soon as it was
was looking for a radio partner.
We put it without further ado
Silent, which ended the spook.
Nevertheless, MM sound customers sounded - we put Orto-
fons Vinylmaster Silver as well
the Virtuoso V2 from Clearaudio - quite dark;  not undynamic, but slightly cloudy, tough, as if braked, while MC scanners were completely free, disengaged and played with their usual freshness.
If we initially suspected a high capacity to protect against RF intrusion, which leaves MMs busy and dull, as culprits, the laboratory showed that the phono input has hardly any capacitive load.  Rather, probably the low input resistance is responsible for the MM-Schlappe.  At just over 16 kilohms, it is well below the "norm" of 47 kOhm.
When switching to MC, this value did not change - the two larger models are adaptable in terms of resistance and capacitance - so one should choose a system that does not become glazed or pointed at such comparatively high termination.  "Excerpt from the German magazine Stereo.  The le 120 was tested. Rolleyes

https://www.audio-components.de/assets/U...tereo2.pdf

Hi thank you very much mate! Wish I knew German so that I can understand the rest of it lol. 

So basically it’s 16 kOhms and almost zero pF for both MM and MC cartridges?

In this case, won’t the sound be distorted? Take my Benz Micro Ace SL for example (0.4mV output MC, impedance 120 Ohms, recommended loading range greater than 100 Ohms). On my other system with aphono preamp and tube amp, I set the loading at 120 Ohms as a rule of thumb (10 times the cartridge impedance). In Devialet 120 Isn’t the 16 kOhms too high for my 100 Ohm cartridge? Although theoretically it’s greater than 100 Ohms? Won’t the ideal frequency response be distorted especially in the higher frequencies?

From http://www.extremephono.com/Loading.htm

Fig. 1 shows the effect of varying the resistive load on an MC cartridge. The potential deviation from a linear response by a wrong loading resistance can be massive.

[Image: Loadin1.gif]

With Ortofons Cadenza Red, for example, we made the best of our experience, especially since the phono frequency response is smooth as lineal, and we even perceive the lower noise floor than MM. Assuming a high quality MC, the phono branch is a complete complement to the phalanx of digital inputs.
That's the rest, otherwise nothing was discussed by phono!
Devialet 220Pro/CI, B&W 802 D3, Linn Klimax DS/Katalyst, Burmester 089 CD, Melco N1ZS/2A + D100, Cable Audioquest (NRG-10,Diamond,K2,Yukon,Coffee etc.), iPad-Pro, KECES P8 Dual, Qobuz Studio, AQVOX-SE Switch
IsoTek: 2 x EVO3 Genesis One, EVO3 Titan One, EVO3 Syncro 
Roon: Nucleus+, Roon-Rock (Intel Nuc7i7bnh,RAM 16GB), Roon Lifetime                                                                                                                
Germany / Bavaria
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#5
Thanks I google translated that part and it confused me more lol. I checked that Ortofon specified that the loading impedance for cadenza red should be 50 to 500 Ohms while 16k Ohms surely exceeded that. How can the frequency response be as smooth as linear?

I also found this thread posted by @Mont Blanc (https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Phono-stage-loading) in which he said “I've checked with Devialet support and they have confirmed the phono stage loading on the Expert 120-140 Pro is 47K Ohms in the MC or MM setting.“...
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#6
I notice that on Devialet's help page it states the following on the load resistance table:

Loading Cartridge load resistance (not available on Le 120 or 130 Pro):

See link:

https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/artic...hono-Stage

This is a little strange, as I see that the 140 Pro configurator allows you to select the Ortofon Cadenza Red as an option, so why don't Devialet make it clear what actual setting this gives you? Which I guess takes us back to @mjledme 's original question.

So slightly baffling. Calling @thumb5 - maybe something you would like to add to you list of questions for next months Devialet event at OAC? Maybe the answer is that the phono stage offers nothing but 47 kOhms for MC cartridges, but this does seam a little odd, so it would be good to confirm.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo - tX-USBultra - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#7
Just to be clear, then, the question is: what is the loading for MM and MC cartridges in the 120 and 130 Pro which don't have the advanced phono stage fitted? I'll add it to my list.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#8
I would expand slightly to:

What is the cartridge load resistance and cartridge load capacitance for both the MM and MC cartridges settings in the 120, 130 & 140 Pro which don't have the advanced phono stage fitted?
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo - tX-USBultra - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#9
Thank you guys for your input. If @thumb5 can get an answer from Devialet that should be authoritative and will end my guessing lol. Anyway if I get any further response from Devialet (hopefully) I’ll update here too.

I think the ban of users of 120 and 140 pro from using advanced phono stage configurations, i.e., setting the load resistance and capacitance according to specs of different cartridges, is more of a marketing consideration (like price differentiation) than a technical restriction (the hardware setting of 120 and 140 pro, thought less advanced than higher models, can still support different load resistance and capacitance settings). I’m totally fine with Devialet’s strategy but just would like to know the default settings.

Sort of a piece of evidence: In the post https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Phono-stage-loading one member @whatmore confirmed that he can set load resistance and capacitance in his Devialet 120...
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#10
Hi everyone I finally received the reply from devialet:

“Thank you for your contacting and patience.

I have forward your inquiry to our engineer, he advises that "The 120 model has the following fixed loading values: 47k resistance and 0pF (no loading capacitance) for either MM and MC. No MC loading available on this model. "

Looking forward to hearing from you.”
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