Master and companion digital connections

[InspectorBudget]

Hello everyone!
First of all, sorry if my english isn't perfect, I'll try to explain me the best I can.

I've been reading this forum the last 3 weeks, and what a wonderful place, full of customers experience and answers, really great

I'm saving for a Devialet 400, because I'll move to a new house (well, buid a new house), and I'm planning to make a dedicated listening room, my searches for equipment tells me that Devialet is the way to go, because of the astonishing price-perfomance ratio.

I've been reading that the connections between master and companion amplifier are mismatched (one is S/PDIF and the other AES/EBU), but, every time I search pictures I found this:

http://audiosalon.com/wp-content/uploads...nectic.jpg

Or the picture is wrong and shows the companion amplifier two times, or they can be connected with an AES/EBU cable instead of the supplied unbalanced S/PDIF crystal cable...is that true or should I buy an Audioprana S/PDIF to AES/EBU cable if I want to chain them balanced?

Another thing is, that I'm trying to build a custom music server/PC, and found this thing:
http://www.psaudio.com/products/perfectwave-bridge/

Is an ethernet PCI board made by PS Audio, I'm planning to put it in my music server instead of an audiophile USB PCI card, and link it to the Devialet via an Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable, anyone tried this? 
If the AES connection is used for chaining the two amps, does the ethernet connection work better than USB?

I would be very grateful if someone can solve me those doubts.
Thanks for your attention

[thumb5]

Hello!

The output from the master to the companion is always on the RCA (S/PDIF) connector.  The companion can be configured to accept this input on either the RCA (S/PDIF) connector, in which case the supplied cable can be used, or on the AES/EBU connector, in which case you can use an RCA-to-AES/EBU adapter/cable.  Unfortunately there is no way to use a fully-balanced connection between master and companion, which (I suppose) is because the AES/EBU connector is input-only.

As far as your second question is concerned: when you ask "does the Ethernet connection work better than USB" I'm not sure whether you're talking about reliability or sound quality?

If you read around the forum, you'll see that there are problems with Devialet's network-based streaming protocol, which is confusingly called AIR whether it runs over wired Ethernet or wi-fi.  Whether or not it works well in a given system seems to be very unpredictable: some people have no problems, some have minor problems, and some find it completely unusable.  USB seems to work reliably for everyone (I apologise in advance if I've overlooked someone's post noting problems!).

You are in the best position to judge about sound quality: it's subjective and opinions naturally differ.  You might be interested in the results of this poll, though.

I hope that helps somewhat.

Ian

[Antoine]

Edit; my post crossed thumb5's above.


Hi, the Perfectwave bridge is not PCI nor is it made for PC's/computers. It's made for PS Audio's own DirectStream or PerfectWave DACs.

Whatever in-/outputs you'll use for chaining the amps it'll have no influence on either USB or ethernet. Neither will work better or worse whatever you'll choose.

I'm sure someone else will answer your questions about chaining the amps. I have no experience here.

[Gentleman]

Hi.

Just recently I have tried AIR via a very expensive RJ45 ethernet cable directly from PC to D400. I was running my prefered dual-XEON-JPlay-servers and compared AIR with USB via a MUTEC MC-3+USB. For me the SQ of the USB/MUTEC connection was much better than native AIR. But I did not try using different ethernet isolators nor any active components to improve the signal of the ethernet connection. But as I prefer to use JPlay headless running in Win2012 core mode AIR can not be used anyway at all.

Just recently I heard that Devialet might be working on an UPNP solution instead of AIR. From my point of view this would not be the golden way for improved SQ. As we have learned already from various streamers with attached NAS, the sound is massively influenced by each ethernet cable. And many meters of this cables lying around the house don't help to improve the sound at all....

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan

[InspectorBudget]

Thanks to everyone for the answers!
My main objective is get the best of the system in sound quality, more than reliability (that's why the Ethernet vs USB question).

I've saw the poll, and seems that everyone has his preferences, so it looks more like a "subjective sound improvement" (based in sound preferences of the user) than objective and universally better.

I'll get the Devialets in 5 or 6 months when I have the listening room and house finished, and will try to experiment it for myself.
An important factor for this is that my speakers will be a second hand Rockport Atria, which my neighbour has and he will move to another country this year, so I'll get the Atrias at a very fair price, but I have to wait for that.
An interesting test could be a 100 Gbit ethernet card with an ethernet cable capable of that speed like the Audioquest Ethernet Diamond, VS a SOTM usb card with an USB cable of the same quality (Audioquest USB Diamond for example).
I'll try to test it and post the results here. Also, I'll use my studio rig (Dave Hill Europa preamps and Earthworks omni microphones) to record the performances of the Devialet with different connections and post it to Vimeo (which doesn't compress audio), so more users can get a better general idea of the sound's changes in the Devialet.

[Antoine]

5-6 months? You'll have plenty of time to read much about computer audio then, and there's a lot to read.

I've tried it all, well a lot, you can read all about it in my topic if you follow the link in my signature. One painful conclusion for me has been that both the USB and ethernet/WiFi interfaces inside the Devialet will not give you the best SQ. (before coming to that conclusion I already found out USB clearly outperforms ethernet if one uses an optimized server, even when using a dedicated Intel server NIC and the Audioquest ethernet Diamond which I've also tried.)

Like Jan/Gentleman I've finally settled (well for now, things are moving really fast in this computer audio area! ) with a DIY Windows Server 2012 music server with all kinds of improvements and the Mutec MC-3+ USB which is connected to the AES/EBU input of the Devialet. A lot of it is inspired by the work of people at the forums of computeraudiophile.com and jplay.eu. This'll save one a lot of time instead of trying to reinvent the wheel by yourself. What you'll probabably find out that it's not a matter of bigger, better and faster (like the "100gbit/s" NIC you mention) but rather minimizing noise and sources of jitter through lean&mean HQ components and software/operating systems, clean power supplies, careful grounding and applying the right isolation between components.

[InspectorBudget]

5-6 months? You'll have plenty of time to read much about computer audio then, and there's a lot to read.

I've tried it all, well a lot, you can read all about it in my topic if you follow the link in my signature. One painful conclusion for me has been that both the USB and ethernet/WiFi interfaces inside the Devialet will not give you the best SQ. (before coming to that conclusion I already found out USB clearly outperforms ethernet if one uses an optimized server, even when using a dedicated Intel server NIC and the Audioquest ethernet Diamond which I've also tried.)

Like Jan/Gentleman I've finally settled (well for now, things are moving really fast in this computer audio area! ) with a DIY Windows Server 2012 music server with all kinds of improvements and the Mutec MC-3+ USB which is connected to the AES/EBU input of the Devialet. A lot of it is inspired by the work of people at the forums of computeraudiophile.com and jplay.eu. This'll save one a lot of time instead of trying to reinvent the wheel by yourself. What you'll probabably find out that it's not a matter of bigger, better and faster (like the "100gbit/s" NIC you mention) but rather minimizing noise and sources of jitter through lean&mean HQ components and software/operating systems, clean power supplies, careful grounding and applying the right isolation between components.

Wow, thanks for your detailed response!
I'll take my time to read the entire thread, since my english is not perfect and it takes some time to understand everything perfectly.

Yes, 5-6 months is a lot of time to read and learn, but I like to know what I'm buying, because is hard to me to make that kind of money, and a high end listening room is my dream acquisition (even more than an exotic car for example).


What I like about forums is that you can know what things are the best/worst, make a list and test it. You end testing 3 or 4 products instead of the entire store, because thanks to the users feedback and info you're looking always in the right direction, plus, I'm the kind of person that buys one time, I like to buy the best I can and forget about upgrading, because I think that one ends spending more money upgrading things constantly than buying a really nice product at first.

Have a nice day, I'll post my impressions when my setup is complete

[GuillaumeB]

One painful conclusion for me has been that both the USB and ethernet/WiFi interfaces inside the Devialet will not give you the best SQ. 

Hi Antoine, I don't wish to contradict you in any way; I know you've carried out a lot of painstaking trial and error work on this and should be commended for your efforts and in particular sharing your thoughts with the rest of the forum. I think many have learnt a great deal from you.

As you know I currently own the totaldac d1 server which outputs via AES/EBU to my Devialet. I've been very happy with this as a solution. However as you know I believe this is bettered by the Melco N1Z, and by a reasonable margin. This outputs via USB.

So my next logical upgrade path would be the Melco N1Z. In some ways we are going in opposite directions! 

Guillaume

[Antoine]

Hi Guillaume, thank you for the kind words. However you, or anyone should feel free to contradict me when they have opposing or different opinions, especially when these come from own experience(s). I am no authority in these matters and of course there are many ways that lead to Rome.

I on the other hand should be even more careful when formulating conclusions. In the sentence you quoted it would have been better if I had ended with 'were not able to give me the best SQ.' Of course my opinion still is that Devialet's 'modern' digital inputs (USB, ethernet, WiFi) are not SotA and can be improved upon significantly. I've elaborated more on this opinion in HiFi_Swlon's recent 'why is digital audio so complicated' topic and other topics.

Did not know by the way you were going from D1 to the N1Z! I am honestly surprised and actually curious as to how it would perform through the D1 reclocker, if of course you have tested this and if it is even possible at all.

[Confused]

You could use an N1Z with either the Mutec or TotalDac to AES/EBU. N1Z+TotalDac reclocker vs N1Z + Mutec reclocker would be one hell of a shoot out!