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Need help choosing a streamer
#11
(03-Jan-2019, 12:44)BrianT Wrote: I have the Auralic Aires G2, the build quality and sound are superb.

But if I was to do it all again, I would take a real good look at the Roon Nucleus plus SSD

Brian

Please elaborate. Have you experienced the Roon nucleus  to determine its SQ is better or based on reviews or something else?
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#12
(03-Jan-2019, 12:44)BrianT Wrote: I have the Auralic Aires G2, the build quality and sound are superb.

But if I was to do it all again, I would take a real good look at the Roon Nucleus plus SSD

How, or why? Ones a renderer, the other a server - two completely different functions.
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#13
I have an Innuos Zenith and I thought about giving the Innuos in payment for an Auralic G2, because I don´t really need the CD-ripper. I have no dealer found, who sells both devices and has recommended me this. They told me this would be a step back in sound quality.
Devialet 220PRO CI, Magico A3, 2 Gold Phantoms, Dialog, ROON Rock NUC8i3, Raspberry Pi2 Digi+, Audirvana
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#14
I’ve heard good things about the innuos but the zenith mk 3 would be a bit above my intended limit. The zen mk3 would work, but not sure if it’s too much of a step down in sq over the zenith. Or how it compares to the Aries g1 or lumin.

I’ve been looking on Audiogon for a used g2 or innuos product in my price range, but, so far, no luck.
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#15
(03-Jan-2019, 19:31)alaw Wrote:
(03-Jan-2019, 12:44)BrianT Wrote: I have the Auralic Aires G2, the build quality and sound are superb.

But if I was to do it all again, I would take a real good look at the Roon Nucleus plus SSD

How, or why? Ones a renderer, the other a server - two completely different functions.

Explain please, renderer-server?

All I know is in that my system, when and I plugged in my buddies Nucleus (SSD) to the USB on my 440PRO
(removed the G2 USB) and logged into his Roon account on my iPad they both played music. 

As for sound, some tunes I preferred the the Nucleus but other tunes I preferred the G2.
I found the Bass to be a tad weightier on the G2 on all tunes, the mids where wonderful on both.
I listen to a lot of male and female vocals.
I do not sit there and do critical listening, I just enjoy the music.

For the 2K difference in price, I think (but never know) that I would be very happy with the Roon Nucleus
in my system.

Brian
Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable, VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Auralic Aires G2, Audience AU24 USB cable, 
B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, 6 x OREA Bronze Footers.
                                                                                                               Ottawa, Canada.



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#16
(03-Jan-2019, 22:08)mmorrison55 Wrote: I’ve been looking on Audiogon for a used g2 or innuos product in my price range, but, so far, no luck.

Good luck in finding a used G2, they are hard to come by.

Please read the post above, about my experiences with the Roon Nucleus.

Brian
Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable, VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Auralic Aires G2, Audience AU24 USB cable, 
B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, 6 x OREA Bronze Footers.
                                                                                                               Ottawa, Canada.



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#17
(04-Jan-2019, 00:39)BrianT Wrote: For the 2K difference in price, I think (but never know) that I would be very happy with the Roon Nucleus
in my system.
Brian, thanks for your reply, and you’ve confirmed my own findings. Just to add, its well known that a Nucleaus is a standard Intel NUC7i3 or NUC7i7 (the plus) in a nice (fanless) case. You could save another $1k or so by building your own... this is the route I took. I also have a 440PRO CI and use Devialet/Roon AIR rather than direct USB.
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#18
(04-Jan-2019, 06:30)alaw Wrote:
(04-Jan-2019, 00:39)BrianT Wrote: For the 2K difference in price, I think (but never know) that I would be very happy with the Roon Nucleus
in my system.
Brian, thanks for your reply, and you’ve confirmed my own findings. Just to add, its well known that a Nucleaus is a standard Intel NUC7i3 or NUC7i7 (the plus) in a nice (fanless) case. You could save another $1k or so by building your own... this is the route I took. I also have a 440PRO CI and use Devialet/Roon AIR rather than direct USB.

Interesting to read that you get equally good results by putting together a NUC7i3/i5! I am in the process of testing a Roon Nucleus that goes straight via USB into my Devialet Expert 120. I very much like its sound, very clean and resolving, totally lacking any brightness! I wanted to see how the Nucleus compares to my Mac Mini setup and I must say, the Nucleus/USB vastly beats Mac Mini/AIR. NOW, if, say, an NUC7i7 gives the same performance, admittedly this would be far cheaper than the Roon's Nucleus.
Are there reliable instructions on how to build/set up a NUC for running ROCK? And is the performance equal to a Nucleus, or in other words, how much extra components (linear power supply, etc) is required to get a NUC to the same performance level as a Nucleus? Thanks for input!
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#19
(02-Jan-2019, 06:10)mmorrison55 Wrote: I would like to keep it around 2,000 usd or less. I could stretch it to 2500-3k if it blows away everything else at or below the 2k limit.

My current equipment includes a d200, OPPO cd/dvd player and appletv, that I use as an airplay streamer for Apple Music subscription.for any input interface,  I mainly have Apple iOS devices (iMac, iPhones and iPads),  it I do have a pc I use for gaming mostly that resides fairly lose to my d200. The Mac (and my router) is in the opposite side of the room and would not be ideal for any direct cabling. Wi-Fi is preferable. And while I currently use Apple Music, I am planning to try quboz as soon as it’s available in the us, which should be anytime now. I tried tidal, but honestly I did. It care for tidal interface, plus I can’t tell a difference in sq over Apple Music. I have been using the Apple Music and tidal iOS apps and AirPlay thru the atv to the devialet, So I’m hoping once I have the app running natively on the streamer that the sq will improve. 

I initially was thinking I would like a cd ripper/server,  but I don’t have a very large cd collection that would make ripping cds a priority,  but if my choice has this option it would be a nice bonus. The innuos line looks good for a ripper/server/streamer,  but anything within my budget from innuos may not be worth it over other options listed below.

For streaming, which I mainly do, I was thinking lumin u1 mini or auralic Aries g1.  Both seem to be about equal price and close in specs from what I can tell. 

I have read some reviews of how good the sq is with the sotm s200, but I must admit that I am not sure exactly what it is or what options I would actually need if I did go with something like the sotm. Nor am I sure I can stream via WiFi to the sotm. Plus I think sotm is not as plug n play as all others I have listed. I don’t mind putting the time to learn if the sq of the sotm is beyond the other options I have listed.

So I’m hoping I can get some feedback from fellow members who have experience with these devices or any others that you can recommend highly.

Thanks,

Mike


The first thing I'd try is to make your PC Dual Boot. One boot option would be the gaming PC partition the other the audio PC partition. On the audio partion install a Windows Server 2016 or 2019 OS (both license no. are very cheap 20-30€ on ebay). Then first try out Devialet Air on the WS2016 audio partition of your laptop. The WS2016 OS sounds better than other OS because it has much less processes and services running in background than Win10 or any Apple OS. If you want comfort while streaming get a trial of Roon. If you want to go for SQ you can further improve this system (WS2016) as your knowledge grows. Look into my signature...you can install Audiphile Optimizer 2.20 (and still use Roon)...next step would be to install Fidelizer 8.3 (still using Roon).
Next step would be to install JplayFemto7 (that includes JplayRenderer AND JplayServer as Software). Here you can go two ways. You can use the new Jplay7 ASIO driver that comes with JplayFemto in Roon as a device to stream to or if you want the maximum in SQ you can choose the JplayFemto Server as source giving the signal to JplayFemto Renderer. Both are Software running on your WS2016 Laptop. You controll it with iOS or Android tablet. At this point you can choose: more comfort with Roon (for family and normal zapping through your library OR best SQ with less comfort but serious listening. You can use both in this configuration).
Your Laptop is connected to your D200 by USB-cable (the best you can afford serves well. Try different brands AFTER setting up your laptop. It will be easy to decide.).
This configuration can be improved even further (would take it too far here) but even at this level it would challenge every other sytem to have better SQ even when spending thousands on hardware (server,renderer, a.e.). Yes a (normal) laptop is not the best hardware source but you'd be surprised how good it actually can be.
Now please get me right. A 'normal' Devialet AIR connection from a PC to your Devialet (be it USB or Ethernet/WiFi) will sound very, very good. This is not about good or bad.

The difference here is in the detail. If you can set up a PC with all audio software like mentioned above you can have the 'good' sound (well, actually very good) AND the magic of realism in imaging that some software like JplayFemto can deliver. I promise I've never heard such spooky realism with my music as with this configuration. I've to admit that my laptop is heavily modified and the USB connection is one of the best but it amazes me every time what kind of improvement is delivered by changing software for the better on my system. The last big step was in November when JplayFemto7 was released (I used Jplay 6.2 before but that was 'only' an ASIO driver). Now the Jplay team has developed its own server and renderer and they made a tremendous job. The precision of the music reproduction is outstanding. The spatial Information burried in the recording is assembled in such a natural way it gives me goosebumps every time. Now I've no affiliation to Jplay but why not promote something when it is that good ;-)
What made me wonder is the fact that some users in the Jplay forum stated that this configuration even beats a linux system like the Roon Nucleus that was intentionally build to only playback audio. The sound with the Nucleus was less live and realistic kind of uninspired if recall it well. My thinking here is that it's not hard to achieve good sound with your Devialet and Roon and Nucleus will deliver it but as I can tell from my experience there are supplementary realms of SQ you can achieve with a little of work by yourself.
The good thing when choosing this way is that you can start by very little expend and you have a reference you can compare other well reputed hardware (or Software) against. And I promise they will have a hard time competing your system.

gui
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - WS2016/AudiophileOptimizer 2.20 /foobar1.3.16  /JplayFemto 7d/process lasso server edition (beta)/fidelizer 8.3 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 exWifi/exPhono-board/exBindingPosts - ex=extracted -
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#20
(06-Jan-2019, 19:27)yabaVR Wrote:
(02-Jan-2019, 06:10)mmorrison55 Wrote: I would like to keep it around 2,000 usd or less. I could stretch it to 2500-3k if it blows away everything else at or below the 2k limit.

My current equipment includes a d200, OPPO cd/dvd player and appletv, that I use as an airplay streamer for Apple Music subscription.for any input interface,  I mainly have Apple iOS devices (iMac, iPhones and iPads),  it I do have a pc I use for gaming mostly that resides fairly lose to my d200. The Mac (and my router) is in the opposite side of the room and would not be ideal for any direct cabling. Wi-Fi is preferable. And while I currently use Apple Music, I am planning to try quboz as soon as it’s available in the us, which should be anytime now. I tried tidal, but honestly I did. It care for tidal interface, plus I can’t tell a difference in sq over Apple Music. I have been using the Apple Music and tidal iOS apps and AirPlay thru the atv to the devialet, So I’m hoping once I have the app running natively on the streamer that the sq will improve. 

I initially was thinking I would like a cd ripper/server,  but I don’t have a very large cd collection that would make ripping cds a priority,  but if my choice has this option it would be a nice bonus. The innuos line looks good for a ripper/server/streamer,  but anything within my budget from innuos may not be worth it over other options listed below.

For streaming, which I mainly do, I was thinking lumin u1 mini or auralic Aries g1.  Both seem to be about equal price and close in specs from what I can tell. 

I have read some reviews of how good the sq is with the sotm s200, but I must admit that I am not sure exactly what it is or what options I would actually need if I did go with something like the sotm. Nor am I sure I can stream via WiFi to the sotm. Plus I think sotm is not as plug n play as all others I have listed. I don’t mind putting the time to learn if the sq of the sotm is beyond the other options I have listed.

So I’m hoping I can get some feedback from fellow members who have experience with these devices or any others that you can recommend highly.

Thanks,

Mike


The first thing I'd try is to make your PC Dual Boot. One boot option would be the gaming PC partition the other the audio PC partition. On the audio partion install a Windows Server 2016 or 2019 OS (both license no. are very cheap 20-30€ on ebay). Then first try out Devialet Air on the WS2016 audio partition of your laptop. The WS2016 OS sounds better than other OS because it has much less processes and services running in background than Win10 or any Apple OS. If you want comfort while streaming get a trial of Roon. If you want to go for SQ you can further improve this system (WS2016) as your knowledge grows. Look into my signature...you can install Audiphile Optimizer 2.20 (and still use Roon)...next step would be to install Fidelizer 8.3 (still using Roon).
Next step would be to install JplayFemto7 (that includes JplayRenderer AND JplayServer as Software). Here you can go two ways. You can use the new Jplay7 ASIO driver that comes with JplayFemto in Roon as a device to stream to or if you want the maximum in SQ you can choose the JplayFemto Server as source giving the signal to JplayFemto Renderer. Both are Software running on your WS2016 Laptop. You controll it with iOS or Android tablet. At this point you can choose: more comfort with Roon (for family and normal zapping through your library OR best SQ with less comfort but serious listening. You can use both in this configuration).
Your Laptop is connected to your D200 by USB-cable (the best you can afford serves well. Try different brands AFTER setting up your laptop. It will be easy to decide.).
This configuration can be improved even further (would take it too far here) but even at this level it would challenge every other sytem to have better SQ even when spending thousands on hardware (server,renderer, a.e.). Yes a (normal) laptop is not the best hardware source but you'd be surprised how good it actually can be.
Now please get me right. A 'normal' Devialet AIR connection from a PC to your Devialet (be it USB or Ethernet/WiFi) will sound very, very good. This is not about good or bad.

The difference here is in the detail. If you can set up a PC with all audio software like mentioned above you can have the 'good' sound (well, actually very good) AND the magic of realism in imaging that some software like JplayFemto can deliver. I promise I've never heard such spooky realism with my music as with this configuration. I've to admit that my laptop is heavily modified and the USB connection is one of the best but it amazes me every time what kind of improvement is delivered by changing software for the better on my system. The last big step was in November when JplayFemto7 was released (I used Jplay 6.2 before but that was 'only' an ASIO driver). Now the Jplay team has developed its own server and renderer and they made a tremendous job. The precision of the music reproduction is outstanding. The spatial Information burried in the recording is assembled in such a natural way it gives me goosebumps every time. Now I've no affiliation to Jplay but why not promote something when it is that good ;-)
What made me wonder is the fact that some users in the Jplay forum stated that this configuration even beats a linux system like the Roon Nucleus that was intentionally build to only playback audio. The sound with the Nucleus was less live and realistic kind of uninspired if recall it well. My thinking here is that it's not hard to achieve good sound with your Devialet and Roon and Nucleus will deliver it but as I can tell from my experience there are supplementary realms of SQ you can achieve with a little of work by yourself.
The good thing when choosing this way is that you can start by very little expend and you have a reference you can compare other well reputed hardware (or Software) against. And I promise they will have a hard time competing your system.

gui

Thank you Gui for the detailed suggestion. I will do some research into JplayFemto.
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