Phantoms and home cinema

[RobLnd]

Well of course if you increase the sound pressure it will make it of great impact with movies.
But it has nothing to do with "surround sound" (encoded soundtrack). It is a different thing.

[fgueho]

Yes, of course I agree. But to be immersed in the movie, I now think it is more important to have the room filled with sound, than to have the surround effects.
The surround effects are really nice, but if I have to choose between :
- a 3.1 setup with 3 front speakers with surround sound
- a double stereo setup with surround sound in stereo (not 5.1)

I will choose the latter. I really think, now I have listen to each setup, that the second one is best to immerse you in a movie.
You should try.
And I really think the 5.1 is finally not so important (even if i like it a lot). The sound coming from behind is more important, even if it is just the same sound from the front speakers, even if not 5.1.

But anyway, you will have both of them with phantoms, when Devialet will eventually release their "home cinema" update. So...

[Butuz]

Guys you need to get real here, in my humble opinion, the home cinema "update" is NOT going to be a firmware update for existing users, it is going to be a completely new dialog (complete with HDMI inputs and a hdmi passthrough to TV) which you will need to buy. Clearly it will be more expensive than the old dialog, so £350 - £500 I recon.

Unless they can remove the optical input lag to 0ms (which I doubt is possible on wireless speakers with complex processing like these) then you will always have lip sync issues. The only way around this, would be to have a new dialog with extra processing and HDMi input(s) so the dialog can control and synchronise both the sound and the video output. Using HDMI will also allow current and future 5.1/7.1/higher surround modes which optical can't support.

Clearly the new surround dialog would need to be significantly bigger to allow the input/output options needed from a home cinema controller.

Sorry to say! If we get a 9.2 super dolby wotsit firmware update for our existing kit *for free* I'll eat my hat!

[fgueho]

Well, any AV receiver can treat digital sound, decode it and send it to analog speaker, without any delay. Why can't Devialet do it?
What's the difference (appart bad software)?

[Phs]

There are 2 reasons for this delay :
- Phantom great sound comes from extensive use of DSP algorithms, and these things take time to process. On professional audio workstations the delay is indicated for each algorithm you use, and the rule is "better they are, longer they take", which make sense in a way
- The wireless Dialog/Phantom operation involves back and forward streaming between devices which again - to be solid and play in sync - requires buffering. This takes time too.


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[fgueho]

So, if they can't solve it, it just means this is not an Home Cinema speaker, they just lie about it...

[frix]

Well, any AV receiver can treat digital sound, decode it and send it toto rnalog speaker, without any delay. Why can't Devialet do it?
What's the difference (appart bad software)?

Because there is no analog input. If there was one it would have to do A/D since it's build around heavy DSP useage which intoduces delay. So I agree with the poster above. I don't see those issues solved with a software update. And yes their marketing department way overpromised in many ways.

[fgueho]

Because there is no analog input.

Well, this is not the reason why. As I said before, any AV receiver can decode the digital sound (from a digital input) without any delay.
And they also have DSP algorithm.
My AV Receiver has 39 different DSP programs and effects I can add to alter the sound.
And there is no delay.

It can't be a wireless/streaming issue because you can link all your phantoms by ethernet and send the audio with an optical cable. There is a 200ms delay nonetheless.
And It should not be an DSP/algorithm issue because current AV Receiver can do what Devialet can't. Which is not normal.

[Phs]

Your AV receiver - since it handles both audio & video - can automatically compensate for DSP delay. Phantom can't.
This is why an HDMI Dialog is probably the only option


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[fgueho]

Your AV receiver - since it handles both audio & video - can automatically compensate for DSP delay.

Again, this is not the reason why. My AV receiver handles only sound in my setup.
I only have an optical cable that goes to my AV Receiver.

So my TV handles directly the video signal (HDMI) and my AV Receiver handles the audio signal (OPTICAL CABLE).
Different paths, NO delay.

I have also tried recently a setup with the video AND the audio handled by the AV Receiver (HDMI), there is also NO delay (so don't tell me my TV has a delay and the AV Receiver has also a delay, but they cancel both because of different paths and exact same delay).