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Question of transparency - Help or Harm?
#11
We're not talking about 50€ bluetooth speakers here but devices costing up to €23.000 and even more for the D900 or whatever it's called...I'd say people have -every- right to complain when things don't work as promised, especially when the company that made those promises fails to a. fix these issues in a timely matter, b. communicates poorly about the progress made in solving these issues and c. doesn't compensate those that suffer from these often not so minor issues.

(I just hope people not only complain here but write/call Devialet as well and keep doing that.)
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The Netherlands
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#12
Is the comparison to Apple ludicrous?  If we are talking market capitalisation, market penetration or many other things, then I have to agree with Guillaume, the comparison is ludicrous.  I'm sure there are Kalahari tribes who know what an iPhone is, however, in conversations I have with most "normal" people (non-audiophile), Devialet is more or less unknown.

Having said that, there was this interview with Pierre-Emmanuel Calmel in SoundStage Global:

"As I was having lunch with Pierre-Emmanuel Calmel, Devialet's cofounder and the inventor of the company's revolutionary ADH (Analog Digital Hybrid) amplifier technology, he reached over and picked up a colleague's Apple iPhone 6 to first praise but then criticize it. He applauded its shape, size, weight, and feel, but then he pointed to the camera lens and said, "I don't believe Steve Jobs would have allowed that." He could tell by my confused look that I didn't understand, so he pointed out that the lens protrudes slightly from the body, which makes the phone not only ever-so-slightly thicker than Apple claims, but also awkward when you rub your finger over it. It was obvious that Pierre-Emmanuel saw this as a design flaw, as he felt it should be aligned with the area around it. "I think he would have challenged his engineers to find a solution," he concluded."

I think it would be unreasonable to try to extrapolate a companies corporate policy from one semi- throw away comment in an interview, but Pierre-Emmanuel is stating that he believes Apple's standards have dropped since the death of Steve Jobs, with the implication that Devialet's management are challenging their engineers to achieve levels of perfection that Steve Jobs himself would be proud of.  So although it is a stretch to state that Devialet wish to emulate Apple in some way, I think this does give at least a tiny insight into the thinking of  Monsieur Calmel.

Having written all that, all this nonsense is actually way off topic.  The original post of this thread asked the question "would being more transparent help or harm Devialet".  I think if we had a poll on here asking "would you like Devialet to improve their communication with respect to known issues", then most people would vote "yes".  But this is a different question to "would being more transparent help or harm Devialet".  Imaging the Monday morning management meeting, where one brave individual says "I think we should issue a press release stating that there are some problems with AIR that we are struggling to fix, come on guys, this is a great idea, it's good to be honest".  Not likely to happen is it?   So what about communication on Devialet's website?  There is a section buried under Devialet help / announcement regarding the beta version of AIR, this is a section that you need a log-in password to access.  The beta version of AIR section does invite comments from customers, in response to the first few customer comments there is one response from Devialet "Thank you very much for your feedback, we transfer all the information to our R&D team.", and that's it, no more, nothing at all after very many months since the last beta release.  As far as I'm concerned, this lack of feedback is damaging to Devialet.  Would it really upset the Devialet golden halo too much if they provided a teeny tiny bit of feedback here?  In fact, when Devialet asked me for specific feedback on an earlier beta version of AIR, the response was also more or less ""Thank you very much for your feedback, we transfer the information to our R&D team."  It strikes me that they are quite simply deliberately obstructive, and this is slightly annoying.

To wrap up and for a touch of balance, MightyMart posted "I agree with you on this 100 % G! Too many people on this forum are complaining about this-and-that not working, instead of either selling their Dev's or just relaxing and realizing that when it comes down to music, the Dev's quite extraordinary."  Well my Dev's not for sale because it sounds superb and I have been lucky enough to have been able to spend much time enjoying it this weekend.  Most enjoyable!  Although, it would appear that enjoying your Dev but also having a good old moan about Devialet themselves is not mutually exclusive! Rolleyes
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#13
(06-Dec-2015, 15:23)Antoine Wrote: We're not talking about 50€ bluetooth speakers here but devices costing up to €23.000 and even more for the D900 or whatever it's called...I'd say people have -every- right to complain when things don't work as promised, especially when the company that made those promises fails to a. fix these issues in a timely matter, b. communicates poorly about the progress made in solving these issues and c. doesn't compensate those that suffer from these often not so minor issues.

(I just hope people not only complain here but write/call Devialet as well and keep doing that.)

Amen. For the money we 're spending I'd expect gold standard aftersales.

The Apple comparison is interesting because even Apple have software issues that they're very tardy to fix. There are bugs which people have been clamouring to be fixed in their products for many years. Google are even worse and have a reputation for writing clever software which is never quite finished, and they never throw enough resources at support once the product is launched (they often call it 'beta' just to cover their backs!). So even the big players are not perfect in that respect, but then unlike Devialet their products are usually pretty usable and without critical flaws making them unusable (except perhaps Apple and the OpenSSL issues up to last year that they were slow to fix). However Devialet have only a tiny set of software products in comparison and it's not too much to ask them to get the most critical one with problems (AIR) to work is it?
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#14
Some great posts guys! I have to say I actually agree with everyone in different ways.  Angel

The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that Devialet need a spokesperson to communicate regularly with owners (as well as partners and potential customers).

Regarding the lack of beta testing feedback surely this one is an easy one to address? It just needs someone to act as an interface between testers and engineers? Some kind of beta testing club could be established with regular updates to club members issued via email bulletin (or other mechanism). There could even be an annual meeting arranged in Paris which could not only act as a forum but also help express Devialet's gratitude for all the hard work put in by the beta testers. Some nice relationships between Devialet and users could be established. (The only issue here might be if Devialet are not actually working on AIR anymore in which case there'd be nothing to report. In this case too much transparency might be a problem!)

In any case this hypothetical CMO/Hd of comms would spend time analysing all the communication bottlenecks and stress areas. Then it would be his or her job to agree with management a comms strategy which would then be implemented across multiple channels. Unless this person has the full backing of the Devialet management team this strategic initiative simply won't work.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

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#15
Sounds like a pitch for the job Guillaume?  Rolleyes
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#16
(06-Dec-2015, 18:24)Confused Wrote: Sounds like a pitch for the job Guillaume?  Rolleyes

You can be his proposer and I will second him - that will seal his fate.

On a serious note he might be rather good at it.
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#17
I'm a bit late to this discussion, and much of what I would have said has already been well expressed by other posts.

One observation about the original question:

Quote:Here the key question:  Would being more transparent HARM or HELP Devialet?

I don't think it's possible to answer that without knowing about Devialet's medium-to-long-term business plans.

Not surprisingly, then, the discussion on the thread seems to have focused on whether being more transparent would help Devialet become a company we would like as customers -- but that's a different question entirely.

Whether having a more open relationship with their existing customers would harm or help Devialet depends very much on what they're planning to do next.

If they were to stay completely focused on existing products -- D-series and Phantom -- and were entirely dependent on them for revenue, then I'd say yes, they would have to make an effort to improve communication with customers in order to maintain or improve sales of these products.

On the other hand, if they're continually using revenue from current products to fund a push into ever higher-volume markets, there's not much incentive to have high levels of customer service and satisfaction for their lower-volume products.  After all, they've already sold them, and any future sales of these products will be a small and ever-decreasing proportion of their revenue.

This has already been evident to some extent in the way interaction with Devialet changed for "Expert line" owners from around the time Phantom was launched.  At least I saw a step change downwards in the timeliness and quality of support.

Another thing that suggests Devialet are aiming at higher-volume markets is their insistence on "shop-front" dealers since the launch of Phantom.  They clearly feel that footfall and the shop window display are now more important to them than the consultative sales approach.

I think part of the dissatisfaction some us (myself included) have expressed with Devialet arises from the tension between what we expect from a company selling relatively expensive audio equipment, and the behaviour of a start-up company with a stated goal to be in high-volume markets.  Remember: "One day, everyone will own a Devialet?"  Well, it won't be an Original d'Atelier, that's for sure.

To put it another way, and rather more bluntly: I feel that Devialet is very important to me, but that I am now very unimportant to Devialet.

For that to change would require a determined, significant, top-down change of style from Devialet.  It's easy to see that this would have tangible costs -- Guillaume has already suggested some pretty important (high-salaried) people might need to be put in place -- but what would the benefits be to Devialet?

Reluctantly I have to conclude that Devialet aren't going to become more customer-friendly any time soon.  In that respect, they are certainly closer in style to Apple than a traditional "high-end" audio company.

That said, I am still very happy with my 400, and it has given me a great deal of pleasure.
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#18
(06-Dec-2015, 19:04)thumb5 Wrote: Remember: "One day, everyone will own a Devialet?"  Well, it won't be an Original d'Atelier, that's for sure.

Last week, in La Maison, Monsieur Calmel was heard to say "One day, 0.0000014% of the population will owe an Original d'Atelier".
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 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
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#19
I bought my first D-Premier a few years ago, well before this forum existed.
I like the Devialet a lot and just use it to listen to music, I trust them to be more expert than I am, and I am a quite experienced engineer.
Personally, from an engineering perspective, I am often astonished and/or exasperated by comments on hifi forums.

Maybe I am just old but the whole "masses of customers having discussions on internet forums" does not lead me to expect anything from manufacturers that we didn't get pre-internet.

I see discussion forums really only as ways for enthusiasts to have fun discussing their hobby which is great and I don't see why it should be anything other than this.

Requests for software changes may make sense, but there are so many different requests and widely different views on priorities that it is more confusing than enlightening.

Having a representative post on a forum usually results in more heat being generated than light.

I gave up completely on motor racing forums over 15 years ago since none of the forum fanatics wanted their firm opinions contadicted by facts...
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Oxfordshire

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#20
What do you expect - Bleeding edge stuff mixed with "Ve are ze Fraanch ..Ve do zings differaaantly - if you don't like it .. Fuuuurk off" (said in a Peter sellers inspector clouseau accent) and major foucus on a new phantom product...
Only issue I have with Devialet is AIR.. but Ive given up on it...
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