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RAAT for Phantoms
#1
Dear Phantom lovers and owners,

Now it is on us to request RAAT for Phantoms. RAAT is the Roon audio protocol that would allow to use a direct streaming from Roon to the Phantoms without need of using Spark. Spark is not that bad. Currently, it is more responsive and faster in handling Qobuz and my local library as server software to stream music to my Phantoms. However, compared to Roon the user experience sucks. I believe that also Devialet came to this conclusion and implemented RAAT to their Expert amps. So, next step is to implement RAAT to the Dialog, which acts same as the CI-board of the expert amps as a stereo streaming receiver of RAAT. Second step then is to implement RAAT to both the Phantom Premiers and Reactors as 1 channel receivers that can be synched in Roon to any system, i.e. 2.0, 2.1, 5.1, 7.1 or more exotic 2.3 for better room control or other configurations. Of course also multi room etc. Let’s pleg for it!
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#2
(12-Feb-2019, 23:27)streamy Wrote: Dear Phantom lovers and owners,

Now it is on us to request RAAT for Phantoms. RAAT is the Roon audio protocol that would allow to use a direct streaming from Roon to the Phantoms without need of using Spark. Spark is not that bad. Currently, it is more responsive and faster in handling Qobuz and my local library as server software to stream music to my Phantoms. However, compared to Roon the user experience sucks. I believe that also Devialet came to this conclusion and implemented RAAT to their Expert amps. So, next step is to implement RAAT to the Dialog, which acts same as the CI-board of the expert amps as a stereo streaming receiver of RAAT. Second step then is to implement RAAT to both the Phantom Premiers and Reactors as 1 channel receivers that can be synched in Roon to any system, i.e. 2.0, 2.1, 5.1, 7.1 or more exotic 2.3 for better room control or other configurations. Of course also multi room etc. Let’s pleg for it!

Hi there, a while back when I sent a letter to devialet from a lot of people on this group about finishing their phantom software implementation their "Director of Customer eXperience and Quality" - Olivier Pacteau contacted me. We had a couple of discussions which I have posted the results of somewhere else in this forum. During the discussions, he said that they had put RAAT on to the expert range but their position at that time on the phantoms was that RAAT was not right for that product line. I'm not sure why. But.... subsequently when I was in contact with an actual developer who was helping fix an ipad IOS12 compatibility issue he noted to me that development for improved Phantom software and connectivity options was a priority because all the Dev's have phantoms personally :-). So who knows. I would reach out to Olivier directly and see what their position is on it. I would like RAAT, because although spark is OK, occasionally my dialog loses the ability to stream from tidal and I have to erase and reset the config of the dialog - a bit annoying. Roon's interface is much better.
Kit: 2 x Devialet Phantom Gold’s plus 3 year Phantom care packs, White tree stands, Dialog, Phantom Remote. Use jRiver, Spark, Roon with a HiFiBerry RAAT using a fibre output.
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#3
Devialet has said that ROON is on the roadmap for DOS2 (Devialet Operating System). They also sent out an email to customers late last year saying that there was work being done to consolidate all of their products over to DOS2.

"Our ultimate aim is to harmonize the user experience across all our product lines. "

The full text of the email if you weren't a recipient, can be found here:

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet-Email

In it you see them saying that the Expert App will be replaced with the Devialet app used for Reactor, and Phantom would receive the same treatment "in the second half of 2019". They also mention adding additional streaming protocols, which will join "Airplay, Spotify Connect and UPnP". Doesn't it make sense that this would be RAAT?

I might be making an unreasonable leap here, but it would seem that if the hope is the harmonize the user experience across all the product lines, wouldn't that infer that RAAT is coming to Phantom as well.

I see that the Expert is now Roon Ready as of today. Seems like a good time to start work on moving the Phantom over next.
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#4
Well, I guess I’m wrong. That’s disappointing. Time to make some noise to Devialet. In a related post on the Roon forums Danny seemed to think that (the Golds, at least) would have more than adequate resources to support RAAT.

https://twitter.com/devialet/status/1095...75008?s=21

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/will-de.../51253/112
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#5
(12-Feb-2019, 23:27)streamy Wrote: that can be synched in Roon

I do not think RAAT is built for this kind of synchronisation. Sync between L and R in stereo needs to be close to zero ms all the time. No drift between channels is allowable.  RAAT will not do that I believe... RAAT on Dialog is realistic however.
How Devialet will solve stereo for Reactor will be interesting to learn. One possible solution is to send stereo to one speaker and then split L and R and send one channel to the other speaker over wifi or ethernet... time will show
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#6
RAAT to both speakers is how Dutch and Dutch are going to make their speakers roon ready, but it seems to be taking them a long time to get it to work.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#7
(17-Feb-2019, 18:49)Soniclife Wrote: RAAT to both speakers is how Dutch and Dutch are going to make their speakers roon ready, but it seems to be taking them a long time to get it to work.

The 6moons review of the 8C only showed a preliminary version of RAAT, but when Dutch and Dutch releases  RAAT one speaker will receive the full signal and will be the 'master' (and master clock) and will pass on the other channel (in a stereo signal) to the other speaker via the AES/EBU link between the two.
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#8
(17-Feb-2019, 19:26)ogs Wrote:
(17-Feb-2019, 18:49)Soniclife Wrote: RAAT to both speakers is how Dutch and Dutch are going to make their speakers roon ready, but it seems to be taking them a long time to get it to work.

The 6moons review of the 8C only showed a preliminary version of RAAT, but when Dutch and Dutch releases  RAAT one speaker will receive the full signal and will be the 'master' (and master clock) and will pass on the other channel (in a stereo signal) to the other speaker via the AES/EBU link between the two.
Have they changed the design, last year they said the following...

"The implementation of Roon in the 8c's has taken a lot longer than we originally expected. The implementation of the Roon SDK was quite straightforward and done within a week, but the difficultly lies in the fact that Roon does not guarantee perfect audio sync between different endpoints. That is usually - for instance within a multiroom system - not much of a problem, because small differences in latency aren't really audible. In a stereo system it messes up the stereo-image. Even a difference in latency of a couple of samples can pull a center image away from dead center. We've now achieved a perfect sync between the two speakers in a stereo system."

That was 7 months ago mind, so as it's still not out I do wonder.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#9
Yes, the design was changed. As they say themselves the lack of absolute sync between stereo channels "messes up the stereo-image". I guess the last sentence talking about "perfect sync" actually refers to this new design. I got the info from them beginning of October last year.
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#10
Disappointing, it seemed an elegant solution, but if RAAT wasn't built with it in mind I can see it being impossible to crack.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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