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SOtM SMS-200
#11
(24-Dec-2016, 12:56)NickB Wrote: I actually made exactly this point about noise on the mains on another forum and actually stated that I could turn mine up to +30 dB and hear silence. Apparently the nasty insidious mains born noise doesn't actually appear until you play some music.... quite how it knows to start then I am unsure, possibly quantum entanglement or something simple like that

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Perhaps they thought you were joking, I've seen you write this before and actually thought the same then.

'Noise' of course is used as a 'catchall concept'. Both in the analog and digital world we have noise and distortion. Of course digital signals are in its basis also analog in nature but there we're not talking about a real time analog music signal but a digital, encoded representation of it.

Noise is more random whereas distortion is directly correlated to the music signal. Noise in the analog world could be heard as hiss/static/'white noise' or whatever when you turn up an analog amplifier to maximum. When no musical signal is amplified you'll hear the self noise of the amplifier and anything that bled in from outside through its connections. Doing this with you Devialet is not the same. All analog signals are converted to digital and DSP'ed at entrance. Digital signals are DSP'ed but they too remain digital until the ADH stage in the Devialet. Turning up the volume on your D without any signal present would let you hear only the amplifed noise of the ADH stage.

'Noise' as the catchall concept in the digital world causes all sorts of other types of issues like jitter and bit errors. Transferring a digital signal in a bit perfect way in the digital domain isn't that hard anymore. It's crossing the border from the digital and analog domain, in the DAC, where things become quite a more difficult. A digital signal seen in an analog way is a high bandwidth/frequency signal. With this digital signal comes a lot of 'noise' as well, both superimposed and offset. This signal also contains jitter. It's the de-jittering and keeping all these types of noise out/not infuencing the VERY delicate (16 bit is 65535 levels of voltage between 0-2V typically) D to A conversion that's difficult. Recent theories also say the quality of the digital signal itself (signal integrity) also influence the circuits in the receiver (the D in our case). A lower integrity digital signal causes a USB receiver for example to 'work harder' and thus cause more noise in it's surrounding circuits through ground and power. Isolating these different domains or doing ones best to get the highest signal integrity if that's not possible mitigates this issue.

All this is terribly complex and the above is in no way complete and just a quick 'overview'. Writing this in English isn't the easiest for me when I'd like to give analogies to explain certain concepts better so I've kept it short. But there's a lot more information 'out there' on the Internet.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#12
(24-Dec-2016, 12:56)NickB Wrote:
(24-Dec-2016, 12:43)Confused Wrote: Hifi_swlon is correct, feeding the LPS-1 with an LPSU will not make any difference to sound quality. However, I do not think MCRU are confused at all, there have been plenty of folk on Computer Audiophile expressing a desire to feed the LPS-1 with a LPSU, MCRU sell LPSU's, the design is done, just advertise that the model with the correct power and voltage that is suitable for the LPS-1, and watch a few sales come in. Of course there is the issue of eliminating 'wall warts' and SMPS power supplies, but to be honest, my house is stuffed full of wall warts, and last time I checked my 1000 Pro had two high powered SMPSU's lurking inside, I think you can worry about this stuff too much! And in terms of 'gunge being fed into the mains', I can turn the Dev's up to +10dB, with wall warts everywhere, and hear nothing but total and utter silence. (until I accidently hit 'play') Confused

I actually made exactly this point about noise on the mains on another forum and actually stated that I could turn mine up to +30 dB and hear silence. Apparently the nasty insidious mains born noise doesn't actually appear until you play some music.... quite how it knows to start then I am unsure, possibly quantum entanglement or something simple like that


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The noise does start when you play music.

I was suspicious about this so I did a test a while back where I took a quiet track and made it massively quieter using audacity, then played it using optical, usb and air.

My silent pc via usb was quiet noisy, my raspberry Pi via usb was a lot quieter, and optical and air were very close to silent. This was tested at +20 with my ear almost touching the drivers.

In all cases when you press pause after a few seconds the noise stops as some form of digital mute kicks in.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#13
Regarding switch mode power supplies (SMPS). I too like to keep those out of my system if possible. And here I'm talking about the cheap -universal- walwarts or universal SMPS inside of a device (like my Mutec). The Devialet too has a SMPS inside but it's developed in house by Devialet and fully tailored (shielded, isolated and extensively filtered) to the device it feeds. As always there's good and bad examples of both types of PSU's.

SMPS supplies -in general- generate more noise in higher frequencies and they have higher leakage currents than linear PSU's. Curing is more difficult than prevention. Uptone says the noise issue is smaller than the leakage issue, and this leakage issue is tackled by the LPS-1.

I just know I personally would like to tackle both. The nice thing about the LPS-1 is that it's output is always fully decoupled from it's input so this would allow you to feed it from a different AC circuit if you would have one near your system (and if that has it's own dedicated circuit). It's also possible to use an isolation transformer after the walwart, this is how Alex of Uptone uses his himself.

Of course there's also cheaper LPSU's to replace the SMPS walwart then the GBP295 MCRU PSU. EBay is full of them. But here things become difficult as one cannot see from the outside how good it is and measurements are rarely supplied by the vendor.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#14
(24-Dec-2016, 14:38)Soniclife Wrote:
(24-Dec-2016, 12:56)NickB Wrote:
(24-Dec-2016, 12:43)Confused Wrote: Hifi_swlon is correct, feeding the LPS-1 with an LPSU will not make any difference to sound quality.  However, I do not think MCRU are confused at all, there have been plenty of folk on Computer Audiophile expressing a desire to feed the LPS-1 with a LPSU, MCRU sell LPSU's, the design is done, just advertise that the model with the correct power and voltage that is suitable for the LPS-1, and watch a few sales come in.  Of course there is the issue of eliminating 'wall warts' and SMPS power supplies, but to be honest, my house is stuffed full of wall warts, and last time I checked my 1000 Pro had two high powered SMPSU's lurking inside, I think you can worry about this stuff too much!  And in terms of 'gunge being fed into the mains', I can turn the Dev's up to +10dB, with wall warts everywhere, and hear nothing but total and utter silence.  (until I accidently hit 'play') Confused

I actually made exactly this point about noise on the mains on another forum and actually stated that I could turn mine up to +30 dB and hear silence. Apparently the nasty insidious mains born noise doesn't actually appear until you play some music.... quite how it knows to start then I am unsure, possibly quantum entanglement or something simple like that


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
The noise does start when you play music.

I was suspicious about this so I did a test a while back where I took a quiet track and made it massively quieter using audacity, then played it using optical, usb and air.

My silent pc via usb was quiet noisy, my raspberry Pi via usb was a lot quieter, and optical and air were very close to silent. This was tested at +20 with my ear almost touching the drivers.

In all cases when you press pause after a few seconds the noise stops as some form of digital mute kicks in.


The bolded part is exactly what happens. Most players 'free' the digital input when idle after some time. Roon for example does this after several seconds (can't remember the exact number). Before freeing the digital input 'digital silence' is fed to the input.

Also people think of noise as being 'one dimensional' and frequency independant but it's not. Different types of noise can cause different types of distortion in the final analog output signal, especially if this noise originates from the digital signal.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#15
Has anyone compared the microrendu against an sms200 in the dev setup? if the sms200 sounded superior I just would have expected more 'buzz' around this device etc


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#16
I've been using the Devialet with Air 3.02 now and JRiver 22 on an absolutely non-dedicated PC. It's is a very powerful desktop PC but used for all sort of other things (among them my wife surfing the net) while I'm streaming music. The PC is powerful enough to do all these and to be honest, I'm not sure if I hear any difference when it's streaming only and nothing else is going on. No crack or glitches or anything with AIR (ethernet) but I was wondering of introducing a SOtM SMS-200 and use NAA (HQplayer) and USB to the Devialet would bring any improvement. Has anybody tried it? Or do I also need a Mutec MC3 USB to hear any difference?
Win10/HQPlayer / Roon - SOtM modified D-link switch / SOtM-SMS-200 ultra with clock input - SOtM tx-USB ultra with clock input 
Mutec MC-3 USB, Mutec REF 10 
Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090 
power supplies: Uptone JS-2, SOtM SPS-500
cables: Acrolink, Acoustic Revive, Curious USB, Vovox Ethernet. 'tweeks': optical network isolation, Shakti Stones and Halograph, Acoustic Revive RR-777, Zcable Sleeves, fo.Q vibration control, EMI absorbing sheets, Sonitus Acoustic Panels. 
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#17
(21-Feb-2017, 16:08)zdenes Wrote: I've been using the Devialet with Air 3.02 now and JRiver 22 on an absolutely non-dedicated PC. It's is a very powerful desktop PC but used for all sort of other things (among them my wife surfing the net) while I'm streaming music. The PC is powerful enough to do all these and to be honest, I'm not sure if I hear any difference when it's streaming only and nothing else is going on. No crack or glitches or anything with AIR (ethernet) but I was wondering of introducing a SOtM SMS-200 and use NAA (HQplayer) and USB to the Devialet would bring any improvement. Has anybody tried it? Or do I also need a Mutec MC3 USB to hear any difference?

I think that AIR is better than USB input on Devialet 440 and this is also via a ordinary desktop computer. I have tried microRendu and Mustec to AES but to me there was so little difference between them that I decided to go with AIR as it is less stuff to fiddle around with.

Today I run Roon, HQ Player and AIR 3.0.2 over ethernet to my 440Pro and is very happy with that, I have plans to build a dedicated computer to just run this setup but I am waiting to see what Devialets streamerboard brings to the party (I dont have any high hopes for anything usefull).
Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8D, Ansuz Darkz D-TC
Tidal Hifi -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Netgear GS108 -> SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo -> USB -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> USB -> DAC
HD Plex PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC), 2x Paul Hynes SR4 PSU (for sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra)

Second system
Tidal Hifi -> Devialet Dialog, Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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#18
(21-Feb-2017, 16:13)octaviars Wrote:
(21-Feb-2017, 16:08)zdenes Wrote: I've been using the Devialet with Air 3.02 now and JRiver 22 on an absolutely non-dedicated PC. It's is a very powerful desktop PC but used for all sort of other things (among them my wife surfing the net) while I'm streaming music. The PC is powerful enough to do all these and to be honest, I'm not sure if I hear any difference when it's streaming only and nothing else is going on. No crack or glitches or anything with AIR (ethernet) but I was wondering of introducing a SOtM SMS-200 and use NAA (HQplayer) and USB to the Devialet would bring any improvement. Has anybody tried it? Or do I also need a Mutec MC3 USB to hear any difference?

I think that AIR is better than USB input on Devialet 440 and this is also via a ordinary desktop computer. I have tried microRendu and Mustec to AES but to me there was so little difference between them that I decided to go with AIR as it is less stuff to fiddle around with.

Today I run Roon, HQ Player and AIR 3.0.2 over ethernet to my 440Pro and is very happy with that, I have plans to build a dedicated computer to just run this setup but I am waiting to see what Devialets streamerboard brings to the party (I dont have any high hopes for anything usefull).
Thanks for the reply. In that case, I will not purchase another device, saves money and space Smile  I have the D800 and haven't upgraded to pro as it I couldn't justify 7000 euros for the improvement in SQ. The streamer board we know nothing about and I'm not sure what difference it can make. Isn't using a PC on a network and Air 3 is already streaming? Maybe with a steamer board, it will be possible to stream from a NAS directly but that is not worth 7000 (for me at least).
Have you found Roon+HQplayer better than Jriver? What settings do you use with HQplayer. I'm just going to download it and give it a try.
Win10/HQPlayer / Roon - SOtM modified D-link switch / SOtM-SMS-200 ultra with clock input - SOtM tx-USB ultra with clock input 
Mutec MC-3 USB, Mutec REF 10 
Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090 
power supplies: Uptone JS-2, SOtM SPS-500
cables: Acrolink, Acoustic Revive, Curious USB, Vovox Ethernet. 'tweeks': optical network isolation, Shakti Stones and Halograph, Acoustic Revive RR-777, Zcable Sleeves, fo.Q vibration control, EMI absorbing sheets, Sonitus Acoustic Panels. 
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#19
There has been some talk on 'Computer Audiophile' of a new 'sMS-200Ultra', which I believe is an sMS-200 integrated with sOTM's sCLK-EX clock.  Apparently due in April.

With regard to the query above, I really enjoyed the combination of D800 with microRendu and Mutec, and I would put this ahead of AIR.  Luckily this set up works well with the 1000 Pro also.  The microRendu on it's own was better than AIR in some respects, but worse in others.  So not much in it.  (I have posted on this subject in more detail elsewhere)  

It is perhaps worth mentioning that for me the microRendu has always been 100% stable, and I presume this is true of the sMS-200 which shares very similar software.  There are now a few reports elsewhere regarding comparisons of the sMS-200 and the microRendu, I think it is fair to say that the sMS-200 is now generally considered the better of the two, albeit the margins are not huge.  I have not tried the sMS-200 myself.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo - tX-USBultra - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#20
Quote:Have you found Roon+HQplayer better than Jriver? What settings do you use with HQplayer. I'm just going to download it and give it a try.


I have never tried JRiver so I cant say anything about it.

I just started to try HQ Player but I feel that upsampling in HQ Player is better than in Roon.

This is the settings I use right now.

   
Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8D, Ansuz Darkz D-TC
Tidal Hifi -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Netgear GS108 -> SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo -> USB -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> USB -> DAC
HD Plex PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, switch and NUC), 2x Paul Hynes SR4 PSU (for sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra)

Second system
Tidal Hifi -> Devialet Dialog, Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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