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Sami ' s system
#11
(01-Feb-2018, 22:10)David A Wrote:
(01-Feb-2018, 10:33)samsoum Wrote: I m still playing with multidiffusers placement, the plan was the ceiling though.
Some diy panels for first reflexions also here some pics



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Nice room and setup. A couple of thoughts on your acoustic treatment.

Those bass traps are designed for installation at 45 degrees across the corner. Placing them the way you have will reduce their efficiency. I can understand why you've done it because of the difficulty with the window and roman blind on the right hand side and placing the left hand trap symmetrically to the right but I would suggest placing the left hand trap diagonally across the corner as they are intended to be used. You should get a bit more bass trapping as a result. The difference to the right trap is probably going to be less than you expect because glass is pretty lossy at bass frequencies so you're already getting the equivalent of some bass trapping on the right side anyway. You could try placing the right trap diagonally as well but you may have trouble with the blind. I would definitely try adjusting the left hand trap anyway and if you think that there's too much of an imbalance with the right side as a result you can always shift it back to its current position.

 Now to the diffusors behind the listening position. The rear wall can be a good position for diffusors but diffusion needs distance in which to develop and there can be problems if you sit too close to the diffusor. I think it was RPG, a firm specialising in QRD diffusors, who recommend a minimum distance of around 10 feet between a diffusor and the listener and you're way closer than that. I think you'd do better with absorption behind your sofa because of its proximity to the wall and use the diffusors at the first reflection points on the ceiling instead, or up above the TV screen on the front wall.

Finally, re treating the side wall first reflection points. I've seen recommendations for doing that and I used to do it in my room. I thought it was quite effective. Then I read Floyd Toole's book ("Sound Reproduction") and his comment that studies show that most people prefer the side wall first reflection points untreated because it gives a pleasing widening of the sound stage. I tried it, preferred the result, and I've left my side wall first reflection points untreated since then. Rather than placing your diy panels at the first reflection points, I'd try moving them either back towards the wall behind the speakers or forward along the side walls towards the listening position. Experiment a bit and see if you prefer having the first reflection points treated or having that absorption somewhere else along the side walls. You could also try raising the panels somewhat so the bottom of the panels are around 30cm/1 foot or so below your seated ear height.

As a quick experiment regarding the diffusers behind you, I'd suggest removing the DIY panels from the room and listening for a while to see yow you feel about leaving the side wall reflection points untreated and then, when you're adjusted to the sound of that, remove the diffusors from the room and replace them with the DIY panels to see how you feel about absorption behind you instead of diffusion. You could also try just swapping the diffusors to the current panel locations and the panels to the diffusor location to see how that works.

There's a lot of different views on room treatment but I've come to trust Toole's recommendations quite strongly over the years. Unfortunately they're based on symmetrical rectangular rooms which mine, an L-shaped room with 2 open archway entrances, most certainly is not, so I've had to experiment quite a bit and I'm back doing that again after changing my speakers a few months ago. While your room looks symmetrical, there's actually a significant difference between your left and right walls in relation to construction and that will be making a difference so I suspect that a bit of time playing with placements might surprise you. You will probably notice some significant changes in soundstage width and depth, and also how "lively" the sound is. There can also be changes in timbre. One thing is certain and that is that you will prefer some treatment arrangements to others. You may end up with things back just the way you have them now but I think that you may well find another arrangement more pleasing to you. The only thing it will cost you is a bit of time playing. I think that time is worth it because it can teach you a lot about your room and how it works and that kind of information is always useful.


Hi david !
Thks.a lot for the deep explanation and advises!
I m trying what you suggested now; for the diffusers they are already on the ceiling! My wife doesn t [Image: 9cd3148fc026a9607283a781f9960924.jpg] t like them so far ; let s see with time
Here is a picture.
Cheers


(Router+ modem + switch with upgraded ifi ps) /macbookpro- rooncore/ server-AIR/ROON ethernet.
Linksys switch-aq vodka ethernet-Devialet200 /frw 10.1.0-power cord burmester: vde reg nr9990
Power conditionner:isotek sirius evo3+isotek sequel pc
Spkr cables: acoustic zen satori
Speakers:wilson audio sabrina
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#12
^ Well, I like the look of the diffusors on the ceiling but you don't want me for your wife :-)

Is that an open archway I can see on the left? That wasn't apparent in the photo of the front of your room which you posted initially. If so, that changes things a lot. I've got a similar archway on the right side of my room in about the same location in relation to my speakers and it does make a difference. Things like how big the space through the archway is (it's into a hallway in my case so there's a wall about 1.6m/5' or so away through the archway) and how wide the archway is make a big difference. You may need to have that acoustic panel on the right side to help compensate for the opening, and you may even find that putting another one actually in the opening on the left side helps also. I have one in my archway to balance one on my left wall but neither are at the first reflection point, they're back behind the level of the front edge of the speakers in my case. You'll really need to experiment a bit.

I'm sorry I can't give more concrete advice but there are 2 things preventing me from doing so. First, I've never seen anyone give specific advice for how to treat rooms that open into other spaces or irregularly shaped rooms. Second, what I've found and what I think you'll find if you play around a bit with where you put things is that you can get good results with several different arrangements but they're different results. Each arrangement will affect one characteristic such as bass or soundstage or image size or something more than other arrangements and which one is best depends to a large degree on which characteristic which gets affected is more important to you. I don't think there's one "ideal result" which suits everyone so it's a matter of finding the result which suits you and the only way I know to do that is to spend time moving things around and finding out what works for you.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#13
(02-Feb-2018, 21:07)David A Wrote: ^ Well, I like the look of the diffusors on the ceiling but you don't want me for your wife :-)

Is that an open archway I can see on the left? That wasn't apparent in the photo of the front of your room which you posted initially. If so, that changes things a lot. I've got a similar archway on the right side of my room in about the same location in relation to my speakers and it does make a difference. Things like how big the space through the archway is (it's into a hallway in my case so there's a wall about 1.6m/5' or so away through the archway) and how wide the archway is make a big difference. You may need to have that acoustic panel on the right side to help compensate for the opening, and you may even find that putting another one actually in the opening on the left side helps also. I have one in my archway to balance one on my left wall but neither are at the first reflection point, they're back behind the level of the front edge of the speakers in my case. You'll really need to experiment a bit.

I'm sorry I can't give more concrete advice but there are 2 things preventing me from doing so. First, I've never seen anyone give specific advice for how to treat rooms that open into other spaces or irregularly shaped rooms. Second, what I've found and what I think you'll find if you play around a bit with where you put things is that you can get good results with several different arrangements but they're different results. Each arrangement will affect one characteristic such as bass or soundstage or image size or something more than other arrangements and which one is best depends to a large degree on which characteristic which gets affected is more important to you. I don't think there's one "ideal result" which suits everyone so it's a matter of finding the result which suits you and the only way I know to do that is to spend time moving things around and finding out what works for you.


I really appreciate your thoughts david.
I know , this irregular shape is one of the problems in my room, but believe me, after installing all the acoustics and playing with the placements, i think my room is not bad at all acoustically.
No doubt, the soundstage widened and become deep, details, instrument seperation, even voices all took one degree of naturellness.
I will play with diy panels on the left side .
One thing i tried and payed off greatly is putting the 4 diy panels on the ground on first reflexions and this was great, cause my carpet is not thick enough.
There s a panorama pic under.
Again thks for your advices.[Image: 3d2b533b69ddbbec49e0cbd2c2d82fd9.jpg]


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#14
Irregular rooms are problematic but they can often deliver surprisingly good results. The problem is working out how to get those results and the only way I know to do so is experimenting which can be a pain.

Your right side bass trap still disturbs me and I appreciate the problem with the blind but have you tried angling it at 45 degrees like the left hand trap and having the right hand edge of the trap just up against the blind rather than the window? You won't try a seal against the window side but you will get the back of the trap exposed to more of the corner pressure zone and that may help, provided the trap can remain upright with side contact against only one wall.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#15
(03-Feb-2018, 09:08)David A Wrote: Irregular rooms are problematic but they can often deliver surprisingly good results. The problem is working out how to get those results and the only way I know to do so is experimenting which can be a pain.

Your right side bass trap still disturbs me and I appreciate the problem with the blind but have you tried angling it at 45 degrees like the left hand trap and having the right hand edge of the trap just up against the blind rather than the window? You won't try a seal against the window side but you will get the back of the trap exposed to more of the corner pressure zone and that may help, provided the trap can remain upright with side contact against only one wall.


[Image: d06abc5684121f8d368a74729f7837ef.jpg]
It s slightly better this way!
But i m really liking what i hear now!
Stunning jump!
I think i hear more defined low notes,the soundstage is well defined.
Now i m hearing everything sticking together; placement of instruments,even the applause of people on the concert is so real now.
I always say to myself i need to stick to one upgrade at the time to appreciate the difference; but always fall into 2 to 3 upgrades at a time
I upgraded the network cable to aq vodka; then a 15 days later with 3 ifi ps to switch ; router; modem and few days later with acoustics.




(Router+ modem + switch with upgraded ifi ps) /macbookpro- rooncore/ server-AIR/ROON ethernet.
Linksys switch-aq vodka ethernet-Devialet200 /frw 10.1.0-power cord burmester: vde reg nr9990
Power conditionner:isotek sirius evo3+isotek sequel pc
Spkr cables: acoustic zen satori
Speakers:wilson audio sabrina
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#16
You said "I always say to myself i need to stick to one upgrade at the time to appreciate the difference; but always fall into 2 to 3 upgrades at a time"

I don't need to give you any suggestions, you're already doing what I do :-)

I thought repositioning the bass trap slightly would give you a bit better bass definition. Glad to hear it did.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#17
(04-Feb-2018, 03:03)David A Wrote: You said "I always say to myself i need to stick to one upgrade at the time to appreciate the difference; but always fall into 2 to 3 upgrades at a time"

I don't need to give you any suggestions, you're already doing what I do :-)

I thought repositioning the bass trap slightly would give you a bit better bass definition. Glad to hear it did.


The temptation is hard!
Definitely better bass definition!
Thks


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#18
(01-Feb-2018, 10:31)samsoum Wrote: Here is some pic s of my system .
Bery very satisfied with the few tweaks done lately: ethernet cable upgrade, ps upgrade, sort kone ac from nordost, supreme corner bass traps vicoustic , and multidiffusers dc2 vicoustics.[Image: 5105dd3385f0def172e7162acd448a43.jpg][Image: bc6f9ea033794e80230e679e59c7f427.jpg][Image: 314c9e60c7b2c451755c1ef0ac4c737a.jpg]


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Are those Wilson Sabrinas? Mind sharing a little bit about how you like them - what is it that you really love about them? I'm auditioning a pair hopefully tomorrow/ later this week and would love to hear what you have to say!

Not a lot of Sabrina users that I've come across here
Panamax MR4000 power conditioner > Devialet 220pro CI > Martin Logan Motion 60xt
Macbook Pro/ Onkyo DP-X1 source | Digital playback: Vox
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