Speaker Cables

[Saunter]

Saunter

I have a pair of ML3Ref's (new pair got from Mike 2 months ago), so nice to see a couple of Lenehan Audio guys on Devialetchat.

I also have some Ribbontek speaker cables, with mine being the newer wider version (got some from Mike about 9 months ago). Have some Greg Osborn Datalink speaker cables and to be honest don't really notice a big difference in sound, but there again I haven't done any critical listening with either via music.

A couple of photos attached which mostly show the speakers, but you can partly see the Ribbontek in the 2nd & 3rd photos

Hi Celts88,

I have had the ML2 Refs for hmmm about 8 months also new from Mike. I have the same newer wider versions as you. I believe they are being discontinued because Mike can't get the wire anymore, or something like that.

I had an opportunity to compare the ML2s to a pair of Dynaudio C1 and B&W CM6 recently. I know the B&Ws are a lot cheaper but i had read a couple of reviews with the usual giant killing proclamations so thought it would be an interesting comparison... Any way the ML2s bettered both by a margin in my opinion. This was not with my Dev 200.

The ML2 Refs are fabulous with the Dev200. If there is ever another tour i will be very keen to get them SAMD.

[pdg540]

I'm using Arkana Research blues between my D120 and Totem Hawks. Compared with Atlas Hyper 2.0 biwire, the Arkanas eliminated graininess that I didn't even realize was there, filled out lows and lower mids and added dimension to the soundstage. Compared with Audio Sensibility Statements, improved soundstage as mentioned and, very noticably, took away the shrillness/edginess of some female vocals and horned instruments. I wondered how I ever listened to Norah Jones before the Arkanas. Really an all round more involving and enjoyable listen. I think speaker cables make a pretty big difference with the Dev amps.

[LeeC]

Just for reference I'll post my experiences so far:

I started with an obscure set of Verbatim ribbon speaker cables I had lying around (originally made by Paul Gardner for VSA) but at 8' wouldn't allow me to move my D200 from between the speakers to a side of room position, so I started looking for longer speaker cables.

My local store lent me a pair of Nordost Blue Heaven in 16ft, did the job in relocating my amp BUT sounded horrible, really horrible!  Totally thin, severely tipped up to the highs and a total loss of sound stage and space.  Thankfully, they also sent me home with an identical length of Analysis Plus Oval 9, telling me the two cables would be polar opposites.  Boy, were they right, all the bass came flooding back, mid-range blossomed and thankfully I didn't lose too much detail and resolution.
The Nordost went back and I bought the AP.

However, by now I'd already seen massive differences in sound - similar to changing speakers! So of course, I couldn't stop there...

Next, I came home with a very high dollar pair of Nordost Frey 2, better than the Blue Heaven to be sure but still a very similar house sound.  Compared to the AP 9 still very thin and tipped to HF. Who on earth would pay $$$ for Nordost junk?  Maybe the Valhalla or Odin is better but at tens of thousands they'd need to.  I wholly understand everything is system dependent, so I took them over to my buddy with a high end tube system.  Same exact thing.  His electronics and speakers couldn't be more different and yet the same exact flavor profile.

From my experiences so far, changing from Nordost is like adding a sub woofer into a stand-mount system, totally restoring the balance missing.

The Frey were quickly followed by a pair of Anysis Plus Solo Crystal 8 and finally I found some satisfaction.  Still more bass, better definition all around, way better balance, more resolution, more detail and awesome sound stage and spaciality.  I could only find some 8ft and have reverted to placing my D200 back in the middle between my speakers.

I will say that for the price the AP Oval 9 are easily the best bang for the buck I've experienced across 30 years of systems.

The net result is a VERY convincing display of the enormous differences between speaker cables.  I firmy believe  there's more to come and am looking to demo Crystal, Telluriums higher end, Transparent Gen 5 and a few others.

I suspect my Wireworld Silver Electra 7 power cable is doing a great job but after I've wired a dedicated supply I'll revisit power cables.

Ditching USB and more spendy cables was a revelation and with Mac OS Sierra on my MacBook air via ROON server and AIR 3 I'm continually blown away by the musicality of everything.

More to come as I get hold of new cables and before too long a pair of sub woofers.

[Hifi_swlon]

I spent a couple of weeks with nearly ten sets of cables thanks to a very helpful dealer. They weren't all current issue - some a previous generation - but ranged in price (when new) from about £200 to well over £1,000.

I wasn't sure what to expect, I've had minimal success before but did think cables made a reasonable difference.

Some brands I knew, others not, but I didn't really have any preconceptions about what each 'should do' or sound like. Some were like trea-trunks, some thinner than my current. Some had fabric sheaths, and others had strange looking plugs. Some looked expensive, others cheap. Some looked complicated, others simple.

So I worked through them in the evenings, with a playlist I made for the purpose.

There were points listening to a couple that I though 'oh my god, these are beautiful'. I called my wife to listen to a track through one pair. But then maybe they did something I didn't like. I wasn't sure.

I moved through them all, and narrowed down to a few. I then settled with these for a few more days comparing. I felt two were pretty close so I could barely tell them apart, one of which was the ones I made my wife listen to.

I made my decision and was about to place an order. But then I put my original cables back in. They sounded exactly the same! I then got help to swap cables without my knowing which was which, and I couldn't tell my favourites from the rest. So I decided not to buy any.

This isn't made up or premeditated, this is what happened!

My conclusion being, in my system, my room and with my ears, there wasn't anything really separating any of them. Certainly not anything that would make me spend such sums.

I've felt this sensation before and I honestly think (for me personally) if I listen for things, I can hear them. I assume it's my brain working harder to 'try and hear' and the same would happen if I 'tried to hear' just as hard with my existing cables. I don't know if this is placebo, or expectation bias, or another mechanism, but whatever it is I think I've convinced myself there's more than a degree of made-up-ness about cables. Or my previous part-scepticsm stopped me finding a difference? Anyway, whatever, I then found some reviews of some of the cables I tested, and couldn't believe what I was reading. These same cables had moved some reviewers practically to tears. I just couldn't see how that could be possible.

Anyway, the short of the story is, I'm sticking with my existing, and I've now properly convinced myself that I don't need to waste efforts there in my search for a better sound. I'm better off buying electronics.

It's made me want to go and do another sanity check on my digital cables, which I will do at some point.

I could be deaf, but I don't think so. My high frequency is definitely reduced (I'm over 40) and I've got mild tinnitus, but I reckon i can pick out the treble setting on the D to a dB, maybe even 0.5bd on the right track. So I think I'd tell. I've got a hearing test soon so will check for sure then.

Anyway, not saying anything to anyone about cables, other than what I experienced. No point getting into a debate - I've been on both sides and it's meaningless - all that's important is that everyone's happy and enjoying their music. I've saved quite a bit of cash there, and will put it toward something else (no doubt something I've already paid for).

[btw just to be ckear this is in no way a reply to the post above - I just chucked it in this thread. I only just read the one above so thought I should clarify in case it looked that way as its kind of an opposite view]

[pdg540]

Just for reference I'll post my experiences so far:

I started with an obscure set of Verbatim ribbon speaker cables I had lying around (originally made by Paul Gardner for VSA) but at 8' wouldn't allow me to move my D200 from between the speakers to a side of room position, so I started looking for longer speaker cables.

My local store lent me a pair of Nordost Blue Heaven in 16ft, did the job in relocating my amp BUT sounded horrible, really horrible!  Totally thin, severely tipped up to the highs and a total loss of sound stage and space.  Thankfully, they also sent me home with an identical length of Analysis Plus Oval 9, telling me the two cables would be polar opposites.  Boy, were they right, all the bass came flooding back, mid-range blossomed and thankfully I didn't lose too much detail and resolution.
The Nordost went back and I bought the AP.

However, by now I'd already seen massive differences in sound - similar to changing speakers! So of course, I couldn't stop there...

Next, I came home with a very high dollar pair of Nordost Frey 2, better than the Blue Heaven to be sure but still a very similar house sound.  Compared to the AP 9 still very thin and tipped to HF. Who on earth would pay $$$ for Nordost junk?  Maybe the Valhalla or Odin is better but at tens of thousands they'd need to.  I wholly understand everything is system dependent, so I took them over to my buddy with a high end tube system.  Same exact thing.  His electronics and speakers couldn't be more different and yet the same exact flavor profile.

From my experiences so far, changing from Nordost is like adding a sub woofer into a stand-mount system, totally restoring the balance missing.

The Frey were quickly followed by a pair of Anysis Plus Solo Crystal 8 and finally I found some satisfaction.  Still more bass, better definition all around, way better balance, more resolution, more detail and awesome sound stage and spaciality.  I could only find some 8ft and have reverted to placing my D200 back in the middle between my speakers.

I will say that for the price the AP Oval 9 are easily the best bang for the buck I've experienced across 30 years of systems.

The net result is a VERY convincing display of the enormous differences between speaker cables.  I firmy believe  there's more to come and am looking to demo Crystal, Telluriums higher end, Transparent Gen 5 and a few others.

I suspect my Wireworld Silver Electra 7 power cable is doing a great job but after I've wired a dedicated supply I'll revisit power cables.

Ditching USB and more spendy cables was a revelation and with Mac OS Sierra on my MacBook air via ROON server and AIR 3 I'm continually blown away by the musicality of everything.

More to come as I get hold of new cables and before too long a pair of sub woofers.



Interesting. I tried some Nordost Red Dawns as well with my D120 and Usher 718DMD. Within minutes I had to pull them out. I found them aggressively forward and they really smeared the soundstage. Really a bad few minutes in my recent listening history.

[Rufus McDufus]

I tried both Red Dawns and Heimdall 2s about 3 years ago. I have to admit I quite liked both of them but found the Red Dawns quite 'grainy', as in like a digital image that's had artificial grain applied, so not too different to 'smeared'.The Heimdall 2s made everything sound huge, to such an extent I tried to hide behind the sofa in fear! I'm not sure I could live with that constant anxiety. This is with Raidho speakers which are supposed to be a good match for Nordost. The Raidho C-1.1s use Nordost cabling internally I believe (later Raidho speakers switched to Ansuz).

[Antoine]

My last three pairs of speakers cables have all been Nordost (Flatline Gold, Heimdall 1 and now Tyr 1 which are one tier below Valhalla) and they really need to fit in ones system and of course match the preferences of the listener. To expect them to always match, or always work as a drop-in replacement in any well tuned system would indeed be wrong IMO.

I agree that the entry level cables of Nordost can sound a bit thin (relatively) and the higher you go in their range the more friendly match they become. I have no experience with the new "2" range but these also seem to be a more friendly match with more different systems.

The Nordost cables are very fast and transparant. They won't hide issues upstream in one's system or polish up/smooth the sound. If your speakers tend to be bright for example that's what you will hear. More copper and no silver tends to smooth and warm things, some people like this but it's something I recognize as 'getting in the way' and imparting the same sauce over anything served. Nordost is the opposite, they use silver, not much copper and low capacitance di-electrics (air and teflon). You'll hear "everything" that's there without the sauce. Once everything's right you'll be treated to a very honest but natural sounding reproduction of whatever you feed into your system from your source.

Just my €0.02 of course.

[yanc]

I use Frey (1) and I also find them a little lean. Kind of emphasising the lows and the highs at the expense of the mids.
Which is a different experience than the one reported here. Plenty of bass in my room.
I used the same cables on my previous system (Naim/Sonus Fabers) and the match there was a revelation over the original Naca5. Almost like going from 202 to 252. But I feel I need to try something different now.

[Nakatomi63]

I'm also a skeptic of audiophile speaker cables.  They make a difference but the differences are significantly smaller than the difference a change in amplifiers can make, and the difference between two amplifiers of similar power is already pretty small in the grand scheme of things.  Speaker placement, room treatments, and the speakers themselves make the biggest difference by far.

In my experience speaker cables do matter.
I've tried Chord Odyssey, Chord Epic (with my previous Naim system), Kimber TC 8 and Kimber Monocle and Monocle XL (with Devialet).
Some cables can make (Monocle xl) or break a system (TC 8), others only bring subtle changes.
All cables in a system matter, not only speaker cables.
Even changing the powerline on my NAS has an impact on the sound.
You don't have to take my word on it, but do try it out for yourself, you will be amazed.

I was just considering using the Kimber 8TC speaker cable in my system. Although you wrote this quite some time ago, could you be more specific in explaining your experience with the 8TC? What do you mean when you say you that it can break a system? Do you think it is not a good choice for a Devialet?

[arcam]

My conclusion being, in my system, my room and with my ears, there wasn't anything really separating any of them.  Certainly not anything that would make me spend such sums.

The opposite just happened to me last week-end. I had borrowed some expensive cables from my dealer for a very long while, so long that he had forgotten about the cables entirely. I decided that they had to be returned this weekend and plugged in my old cables just before leaving the house to see if I heard any difference...

... and yes I did, unfortunately. The sound was immediately much harsher, unfortunately.

These same cables had moved some reviewers practically to tears.  I just couldn't see how that could be possible. 

Due to the expensive price tag ?