UK event with Mathieu Pernot - 17 July

[GuillaumeB]

Great post IanG-UK, even though I didn't attend this event I was present at the Munich presentation in 2018.

Without wishing to regurgitate the details of my report back to the forum and subsequent discussions in that same thread, I will say that there was a great deal of (tempered) optimism after Joachim's presentation, which also featured some more technical input from Mathieu. There was a bit of a buzz in the room and Mathieu had been very proud to present the active 3K G1 Spirit setup. With a dedicated Expert business unit in place it seemed as though we could look forward to more developments, although I should add that Joachim was careful not to promise too much.

This enthusiasm seems in stark contrast to the picture presented by @thumb5 which seems to have been confirmed by most if not all present.

I was very sorry to hear from Joachim that he was leaving at the start of the year since it was obvious to me that this meant that he was not able to achieve his ambitions with the Expert line. In fact my understanding - not from speaking directly to Joachim, but rather from connecting with him on LinkedIn -  was that this "dedicated" unit was closed down in July 2018, so only a few months after Munich! It seems that from August onwards Joachim was working in a product marketing capability across a range of products that included Phantom Reactor and the Premier range.

I agree it would be a huge shame if Mathieu were to leave the company.

Guillaume

[markush]

Absolutely agree on your two postings. Hence this is really a crucial and critical time for Expert Line.
Hopefully it can somehow get the turnaround and refocus also on providing the leading / premium HiFi position that Devialet claims/claimed.

[ssfas]

I take the view of the general retail customer rather than a DevialetChat reader. Would I go into a store and buy a Devialet unit? Hell, yes. For me the really great product is the Expert Pro 140, which is fairly new, and rounds off the Expert system because at €5,000 or £4,500 it out-preforms the competition at the same price point, for example compare to the also extremely good Linn Selekt.

Mathieu reminded me that since Expert became fairly mature they have launched Phantom and Reactor, which are no mean feat. I have heard the Phantom Gold as a stereo pair in a Rue Reamur Devialet store in Paris and it is real hifi quality for about £5,000 including everything, which is good value. I heard the 900w Reactor at the Palais Garnier Devialet store, also in Paris, and was blown away by its ability to throw and disperse sound, if not at the top end of quality. I bought the Reactor when it became available in London and my son has borrowed it permanently so may need another one.

Expert does need an integrated control app, but this is on the way. Frankly, I just think they should just joint venture with Roon, as it provides perfect control for Expert. Maybe this will happen when Phantom and Reactor become Roon Ready.

Anyone who thinks Devialet should not be focused on making new products that make money, but should be spending time and money on mature products that are still highly competitive has a strange concept of business.

With regard to the slow loading issue, I had it again this morning, for the first time in ages. This may have been due to my disconnecting the modem to rewire my office after laying new cables under the floor last week. I fixed the problem in 30 seconds. It is a repeatable problem and solution in my system, that I do every time it is powered down, which is hardly ever. Using a gigabit switch does not present any problems.

[David A]

…

Anyone who thinks Devialet should not be focused on making new products that make money, but should be spending time and money on mature products that are still highly competitive has a strange concept of business.
…

Devialet promised the CI board upgrade and certain new functionality to purchasers of the Expert Pro range. The read me file with the last software update in February contained a list of outstanding functions still to be delivered and bugs yet to be fixed, and it deliverered Roon Ready which capability which does not work properly for everyone though there are workarounds and fixes that are more succesful for some people than for others. Whatever is causing that problem needs to be fixed as a part of normal customer service because the problem should not exist in the first place.

I think Devialet has an obligation to finish delivering the functionality they  promised to purchasers of the Expert Pro range and fixing the problems currently present in their firmware. Yes, that will take time and money on their part but the cost of the promised functionality and customer service would  have been factored into the cost of the products. Expecting a company to deliver everything promised for a product and to provide service including fixing problems in the firmware they provide doesn't involve having a strange concept of business, it's having a realistic concept of business because those things are part of the customer service Devialet owe Expert Pro owners and a business needs to be able to deliver customer service while it's also developing and selling new products.

[Antoine]

To those who attended and reported back here: thank you for sharing!!

[ssfas]

…

Anyone who thinks Devialet should not be focused on making new products that make money, but should be spending time and money on mature products that are still highly competitive has a strange concept of business.
…

Devialet promised the CI board upgrade and certain new functionality to purchasers of the Expert Pro range. The read me file with the last software update in February contained a list of outstanding functions still to be delivered and bugs yet to be fixed, and it deliverered Roon Ready which capability which does not work properly for everyone though there are workarounds and fixes that are more succesful for some people than for others. Whatever is causing that problem needs to be fixed as a part of normal customer service because the problem should not exist in the first place.

I think Devialet has an obligation to finish delivering the functionality they  promised to purchasers of the Expert Pro range and fixing the problems currently present in their firmware. Yes, that will take time and money on their part but the cost of the promised functionality and customer service would  have been factored into the cost of the products. Expecting a company to deliver everything promised for a product and to provide service including fixing problems in the firmware they provide doesn't involve having a strange concept of business, it's having a realistic concept of business because those things are part of the customer service Devialet owe Expert Pro owners and a business needs to be able to deliver customer service while it's also developing and selling new products.

The Read_Me file in the latest/Roon software release says:

Still being worked on
• Devialet AIR: Windows instability
• Devialet Remote App : Volume control is inactive before streaming starts

I've not used Windows for at least 15 years because I found it inherently unstable.

The volume control in Roon is also inactive until streaming starts. Expert does come with a working physical remote. They have promised an updated app and they still do promise one, it will be integrated with other Devialet hardware.

My Expert Pro works perfectly with Roon wired and wireless, Spotify, Air, Airplay, uPnP and usb. It is very difficult to expect them to sort issues relating to third party hardware that they cannot replicate. Then there are the issues with settings in third party hardware.

My first streaming system was Linn and the day it arrived it did not work because of incompatibility with a Netgear switch. 

The one thing I recall they absolutely promised and have abandoned is Qobuz onboard. There are so many ways of doing this it no longer matters to me.

[mdconnelly]

I first joined DC here 4 years ago.  At the time, I was very excited about my Expert 200.  Devialet had built a remarkable piece of tech that was perfectly aligned with my interests and ears.  And although, like most products, it had a few glitches (think AIR), it sounded amazing.  With the release of the Expert Pro and subsequent CI upgrade, I was convinced of Devialet's commitment toward this product and, as such, I replaced my 200 with a 220 Pro, and then added a 2nd (i.e.. 440 Pro).  I bought into the Expert Pro/CI upgrade not just for the improved sound, but with confidence in what Devialet claimed as the future of the Expert Pro line.  Yeah, hindsight's a bitch. 

I do understand that management and business priorities change - something that Mr. Pernot's comments certainly seemed to indicate with Devialet.   Yet I do believe a well run company should address bugs of their making, meet their commitments, and communicate directly with their customer base - particularly with regard to impactful changes.  But it doesn't matter a lick what I believe, and it's hardly the first time a company didn't live up to hopes and expectations.  Good/bad, right/wrong, Devialet is pursuing a strategy different from what it was 4 years ago - even a year ago.  Different from what I bought into.  Sad for many of us ...  sad for Mathieu Pernot perhaps, but it is what it is.  

Sure I'm disappointed.  But I still love the sound from my Expert Pro 440 and I'm not giving up on it anytime soon.  Well, not until something better comes along.  Which will likely happen at some point.  May already have...  Hmmm, what's a used 440 Pro worth now anyway?   Damn.

Ah, the life of an audiophile is fraught with peril...

[David A]

The Read_Me file in the latest/Roon software release says:

Still being worked on
• Devialet AIR: Windows instability
• Devialet Remote App : Volume control is inactive before streaming starts

I've not used Windows for at least 15 years because I found it inherently unstable.

The volume control in Roon is also inactive until streaming starts. Expert does come with a working physical remote. They have promised an updated app and they still do promise one, it will be integrated with other Devialet hardware.

My Expert Pro works perfectly with Roon wired and wireless, Spotify, Air, Airplay, uPnP and usb. It is very difficult to expect them to sort issues relating to third party hardware that they cannot replicate. Then there are the issues with settings in third party hardware.

My first streaming system was Linn and the day it arrived it did not work because of incompatibility with a Netgear switch. 

The one thing I recall they absolutely promised and have abandoned is Qobuz onboard. There are so many ways of doing this it no longer matters to me.

That ReadMe file also lists Bluetooth as a Main Feature not supported in this release so they still haven't delivered everything they promised as a "main feature".  It doesn't matter whether or not you for I think Bluetooth is important (I don't), or what you or I think about Windows, those things are important to some people and were promised.

As for the Roon problem, it's not a major issue for me because, like you, i rarely get it in my system but other people's experience is different and while I certainly think 3rd party networking issues are involved, I'm not convinced that's all of the problem and I think it is possible that there are some issues in Devialet's firmware involved. I can trigger it repeatedly by streaming content at 192/24 resolution over RAAT but if I stream the same content over AIR I don't get the problem. If I stream any other resolution than 192/24, even 176.4/24, I don't get the problem. It's hard to see it as solely a network problem related to 3rd party products when those products work flawlessly with one streaming protocol at all resolutions and not at one particular resolution with another protocol. Audio file resolution is irrelevant to the network equipment but it happens to be the on/off switch for the problem for me and audio file resolution is relevant to how a Devialet processes the audio stream since it updates everything to 192/24 as part of its processing. I'm sorry but it's not at all clear to me that this is solely a third party hardware problem though I'm quite happy to accept that third party hardware may be making the problem worse for some people.

You may be happy with your Devialet at the moment. I'm 99.9% happy with mine at the moment because I'd like to be able to stream 192/24 content with RAAT but I can't. But the fact is that it doesn't matter whether you or I are perfectly happy with the current state of affairs, not everyone is and some people are still waiting for things that were promised to them as part of their purchase and for problems with the firmware to be fixed. Those people need to get what they're still waiting on. I bought my 140 over 3 years ago. It was 2 years after I bought my 140 that we got the CI board upgrades and all we had thenb was beta firmware. The final firmware with all promised features is yet to  come 18 months later and ther firmware we've got is not bug free. How long should customers have to wait to get the functionality they were promised or to see bugs fixed? The current issues may not concern you but if an issue crops up that concerns you I'm prepared to bet that you'd like to see if fixed a lot more quickly than it's taking Devialet to deliver on everything the people still waiting for things have been waiting.

You and I have pretty much got what we wanted out of what was promised and could reasonably be expected. Others haven't got that yet and they should get what they were promised and can reasonably expect and even if you and I don't need what's still outstanding, those things are part of the product we were promised when we bought our amps and we should get the products we were promised we'd get.

The Expert Pro range wasn't finished when it was released, it was missing hardware and functions we were told it would have. We've got the hardware now but we still don't have all the functionality and there are still firmware problems. It's not going to be finished until all those things are delivered and they should hurry up and finish it, and finish it properly so things work as they should.

[ssfas]

I've looked back at the replies and and the things that are not happening are:
1. Tidal or Qobuz onboard. No loss - Roon has them onboard and Roon's Qobuz isn't up to the quality of the Qobuz app. I agree it is a huge hassle and there are plenty ways of playing Tidal and Qobuz.
2. Config onboard (wireless control). The only things I might want to reset are the phono settings, and that can be done using the remote. Most people probably use the configurator and forget about it for months or years end. I don't see any benefit and I agree with Mathieu that having two ways of doing the same thing can only cause problems.
3. DSP. This is a nice idea but very difficult to implement anything useful. Auralic promised DSP onboard, but it never happened either. It is very speaker dependent, so probably wishful thinking.
4. Fixing internet problems that cannot be duplicated.

[David A]

I've looked back at the replies and and the things that are not happening are:
1. Tidal or Qobuz onboard. No loss - Roon has them onboard and Roon's Qobuz isn't up to the quality of the Qobuz app. I agree it is a huge hassle and there are plenty ways of playing Tidal and Qobuz.
2. Config onboard (wireless control). The only things I might want to reset are the phono settings, and that can be done using the remote. Most people probably use the configurator and forget about it for months or years end. I don't see any benefit and I agree with Mathieu that having two ways of doing the same thing can only cause problems.
3. DSP. This is a nice idea but very difficult to implement anything useful. Auralic promised DSP onboard, but it never happened either. It is very speaker dependent, so probably wishful thinking.
4. Fixing internet problems that cannot be duplicated.

Everything promised should be delivered, software should work as intended and bugs should be fixed. Is that too much to ask? It doesn't matter whether you or I think it's useful or not, other people have different ideas to us and want things we don't want. If something was promised it should be delivered and the product should work as intended. Failure to do that breaches guarantees and consumer protection legislation. It's dishonest.

As for the Roon issue simply being a 3rd party hardware problem, consider this. My Devialet was way for 3 weeks recently for repair (the SD card reader stopped working). While it was away I streamed music to my home theatre setup in a different room. That setup includes an Oppo BD-105 which is Roon Ready. I streamed to it for 3 weeks over the same network using RAAT, including streaming 192/24 content which causes a problem with my Devialet, and I had no problems at all. Same network, same router, same switch at the server end which is also the switch the Devialet connects to, and an additional identical switch at the point where the Oppo connects. If RAAT works perfectly over the network with one Roon Ready endpoint and has a problem with another Roon Ready endpoint, then the odds are that the problem, or at least a significant part of it, is with the second Roon Ready endpoint and not with the third party hardware in the network.