UK event with Mathieu Pernot - 17 July

[mdconnelly]

@ssfas

You have just explained why you don't get the problem. It does not occur if you are using the Devialet's wifi input, it only occurs if you are using a gigabit wired connection to the Devialet and it does not occur for everyone who uses the gigabit wired connection. For some such as me it occurs rarely and is not a big issue, for others it occurs a lot and is a big issue. It should not occur with a wired ethernet connection.

You say your experience strongly suggests the errors are coming from Roon. I have a separate HT setup in a different room. It includes an Oppo BD103 disc player which, like my Devialet, is Roon Ready and which is also connected to the network via a wired gigabit ethernet connection. Sending a 192/24 resolution stream from Roon triggers the problem with my Devialet but the problem does not occur with the Oppo. Other people with other Roon Ready endpoint devices besides their Devialet also report the problem occurring with their Devialet but not with their other endpoints.  If Roon works flawlessly with other Roon Ready endpoints on the same network and not with the Devialet, then that suggests the problem does not come from Roon or from the network but from the endpoint which has the problem and that endpoint is my Devialet.

I only wish it was a fault with Roon because I have complete confidence they would expedite a solution.  But logic dictates that it could not be Roon's fault.  Remember, Roon did not change their RAAT protocol  to support our Expert Pros.   That was done solely within the Devialet OS/firmware released back early in the year.    Now, perhaps there is something with our routers or networks that is contributing to the problem, but it's hard to imagine why no other Roon Ready devices seem to experience it.     

Be that as it may, it is a problem for many without a resolution (and seemingly none coming anytime soon).   Fortunately, using wifi or a slower ethernet connection to the Expert Pro does seem to circumvent the problem.

[thumb5]

@Bwaze and @mdconnelly: for what it's worth, I'm somewhat worried about this too.  A long time (years) ago I raised a support query to suggest to Devialet that they needed to provide some kind of independent configuration tool that did not depend on the continued existence of their web site.  Nothing came of it; I'm not even sure that the support people understood the point I was making.

I've never seen any documentation specifying the config file format and the meaning of all the parameters.  I guess some of them (SAM settings, for example) only make any sense if you know how the DSP algorithms are coded.  Anyway, I'd be wary of tinkering with them manually for fear of programming a configuration that could damage the amplifier or any speakers connected to it - that CRC is a very good idea!

Since it looks like we are not going to get a self-hosted configurator after all (despite the promise last summer), ideally I would like to see Devialet open source the configurator in some form -- whether that be something that can be used to build a self-hosted web site, or compiled into a stand-alone program to run natively on a Windows, macOS or Linux machine.

[ssfas]

@ssfas

You have just explained why you don't get the problem. It does not occur if you are using the Devialet's wifi input, it only occurs if you are using a gigabit wired connection to the Devialet and it does not occur for everyone who uses the gigabit wired connection. For some such as me it occurs rarely and is not a big issue, for others it occurs a lot and is a big issue. It should not occur with a wired ethernet connection.

You say your experience strongly suggests the errors are coming from Roon. I have a separate HT setup in a different room. It includes an Oppo BD103 disc player which, like my Devialet, is Roon Ready and which is also connected to the network via a wired gigabit ethernet connection. Sending a 192/24 resolution stream from Roon triggers the problem with my Devialet but the problem does not occur with the Oppo. Other people with other Roon Ready endpoint devices besides their Devialet also report the problem occurring with their Devialet but not with their other endpoints.  If Roon works flawlessly with other Roon Ready endpoints on the same network and not with the Devialet, then that suggests the problem does not come from Roon or from the network but from the endpoint which has the problem and that endpoint is my Devialet.

I've used it with a fast Netgear and slow Cisco switch, made no difference. 

The reason why I raised it today is because I got the slow speed error using an Auralic Aries Mini. The Innuos Roon Core Server was wired and does not go through a switch as is wired directly to my modem. The problem became repeated. The Roon server was streaming from Qobuz and streaming the same music from Qobuz native to the Aries there was no problem.

So the Aries was fine playing native Qobuz wireless from my modem, but when playing from the Roon server with a direct ethernet connection to the same modem it was dropping out. 

What was strange was it only started going wrong about 20 minutes into the music. 

I posted an screen capture showing the error with Aries Mini via Roon.

[ssfas]

I'm tempted to post a video just as a reference to see how it differs from systems that are not working.

[Confused]

I am going to slip in here with a slightly random question re the OAC event.  Does anyone here know the name of the Steely Dan track that was played during the "session 2" comparison of amplifiers?  (The track that was almost funky, but not quite)

Regarding the comments re the troubles with Roon RAAT, I tried a little experiment recently.  I now find that CI RAAT works fine, unless I play 24/192 files, where I get regular stuttering.  Is this the router, the switch, something else?  What's wrong with my network?  OK, I then switch from the Devialet CI RAAT, to Roon RAAT mode on my sMS-200Ultra.  Select a 24/192 album, it plays for over an hour with zero issues.  OK - My network is fine after all, it must be a Devialet issue.  I then switch my sMS-200Ultra to 100BASE-T mode, Roon RAAT stutters with 16/44.1 material, which happens to work just fine with Devialet CI RAAT.  Ummm, confusing......

If someone can explain all this, then we might be getting somewhere. 

I have to say that I find some of the comments on this issue very similar to those that we had in the era when Devialet AIR suffered periodic blasts of white noise.  Those that did not have the issue would post that those that did needed to sort out their network issues.  A case of "it works fine on my network, clearly you have a problem with yours."  In the end it turned out that the issue was related to legacy clock systems in Windows that would gradually run out of sync, so some specific PC setups would trigger the issue, others would not.  It had very little or nothing to do with specific network set ups.  It could be the case that actual issue is a very subtle interaction somewhere, which might be very difficult to correctly identify.

As a final thought, considering the many years that I suffered with Devialet AIR stuttering, dropping out or giving me blasts of white noise, it is kind of ironic that AIR now works fine but RAAT has a few bugs.  What is it with streaming audio?

[David A]

@Confused

Can't help with your Steely Dan question since I wasn't there.

Re the rest: It's the inconsistencies with this problem that make it difficult. I know nothing about networks or digital processing but I did study formal logic at one time in my misspent youth and I learnt how to analyse issues and work out what the problem is. With all of the reports we've had you can come up with examples to support any particular cause you want to claim, and other examples to disprove that particular cause. Some people are saying it's one thing, some are saying it's another. I have no idea what the cause is but I seriously doubt the cause is at Roon's end. My guess is that it's at Devialet's end since Devialet's have the problem and other Roon Ready endpoints don't but network issues could be part of it.

I do think the cause, whatever it is, is going to be found and fixed but I also think it's going to take time. It's obviously not something simple or it would already have been identified. Devialet are giving Expert Pro things a low priority and they seem to be giving this issue a low priority, and that doesn't help. We shouldn't hold our breath while waiting.

[ssfas]

@Bwaze and @mdconnelly: for what it's worth, I'm somewhat worried about this too.  A long time (years) ago I raised a support query to suggest to Devialet that they needed to provide some kind of independent configuration tool that did not depend on the continued existence of their web site.  Nothing came of it; I'm not even sure that the support people understood the point I was making.

I've never seen any documentation specifying the config file format and the meaning of all the parameters.  I guess some of them (SAM settings, for example) only make any sense if you know how the DSP algorithms are coded.  Anyway, I'd be wary of tinkering with them manually for fear of programming a configuration that could damage the amplifier or any speakers connected to it - that CRC is a very good idea!

Since it looks like we are not going to get a self-hosted configurator after all (despite the promise last summer), ideally I would like to see Devialet open source the configurator in some form -- whether that be something that can be used to build a self-hosted web site, or compiled into a stand-alone program to run natively on a Windows, macOS or Linux machine.

It's a nice idea that Dev could provide a standalone app that would generate a config file. 

It is however confusing that people raise concern that Dev focus on new products that will make profits that will limit the risk of Dev failing and not providing Expert support.

[mdconnelly]

@Bwaze and @mdconnelly: for what it's worth, I'm somewhat worried about this too.  A long time (years) ago I raised a support query to suggest to Devialet that they needed to provide some kind of independent configuration tool that did not depend on the continued existence of their web site.  Nothing came of it; I'm not even sure that the support people understood the point I was making.

I've never seen any documentation specifying the config file format and the meaning of all the parameters.  I guess some of them (SAM settings, for example) only make any sense if you know how the DSP algorithms are coded.  Anyway, I'd be wary of tinkering with them manually for fear of programming a configuration that could damage the amplifier or any speakers connected to it - that CRC is a very good idea!

Since it looks like we are not going to get a self-hosted configurator after all (despite the promise last summer), ideally I would like to see Devialet open source the configurator in some form -- whether that be something that can be used to build a self-hosted web site, or compiled into a stand-alone program to run natively on a Windows, macOS or Linux machine.

It's a nice idea that Dev could provide a standalone app that would generate a config file. 

It is however confusing that people raise concern that Dev focus on new products that will make profits that will limit the risk of Dev failing and not providing Expert support.

I believe it was stated a year ago that Devialet was working to create the ability to manage and update configuration files on board.  The start of that effort already exists - in your browser, just go to the IP address of your Expert Pro (e.g. 192.168.1.202).   Amazingly enough, if you use Roon and go Roon's Settings - Audio, then click on the blue info link next to your Devialet Expert Pro, a Roon window will open that includes a link 'Configure Device'.   Click on it and it'll take you to the same 'Devialet Configuration'' window in your browser.

I'm confident that if Devialet ever chose to eliminate their website configurator, they would first complete this onboard Configurator.  But, of course, there are no guarantees and the concern only increases given Mr. Pernot's discussion about Expert priorities (or lack thereof).

[David A]

As @mdconnelly says, there is no need for 2 configuration methods. It could all be done on board via the web interface that is already there, and stored in memory on the Devialet so no need for the SD card at all. Maintaining 2 configuration methods would be stupid. One method is enough. It just needs to be easily available to everyone. A method which allows us to make changes and have them applied and stored immediately without needing to download a file to our computer, copy the file to an SD card, and insert the card into the Devialet would make everyone's life a little bit easier.

[ogs]

It seems Devialet has given up keeping the amps 'on top'. Strange actually as the 140/210 is quite new. It's easier to make new life style designs like Reactor. Easier to make money too if sales figures for Phantoms are correct.
The main problem could be programmer quality and capacity. It is not easy to find really good programmers these days even if there are many 'programmers' available. If you are one of the clever programmers you can easily be tempted by good offers from other employers. So keeping good programmers is also a challenge