UK event with Mathieu Pernot - 17 July

[petrik]

I've looked back at the replies and and the things that are not happening are:
1. Tidal or Qobuz onboard. No loss - Roon has them onboard and Roon's Qobuz isn't up to the quality of the Qobuz app. I agree it is a huge hassle and there are plenty ways of playing Tidal and Qobuz.
2. Config onboard (wireless control). The only things I might want to reset are the phono settings, and that can be done using the remote. Most people probably use the configurator and forget about it for months or years end. I don't see any benefit and I agree with Mathieu that having two ways of doing the same thing can only cause problems.
3. DSP. This is a nice idea but very difficult to implement anything useful. Auralic promised DSP onboard, but it never happened either. It is very speaker dependent, so probably wishful thinking.
4. Fixing internet problems that cannot be duplicated.

1. You missed Deezer, Bluetooth and Webradios that were promised in addition to Qobuz and Tidal. It's just not right to market / "sell" the Core Infinity upgrades based on these features that they are not going to implement.
2. If you don't have a need for this -> it doesn't mean that this wouldn't be a useful feature for other people. I think this would be a good feature since it's slightly annoying and old-fashioned to play with the memory cards.
4. What internet problems? All it takes 5 seconds to duplicate the issue on my network at gigabit speed. And yes, I have tried many different network configurations so far (with the help from Roon, Devialet and my dealer):
- Connecting all devices directly to the router
- Tried different routers (Cable company, Asus, Netgear, Apple Airport Extreme).
- Tried different settings on the routers
- Tried different unmanaged gigabit switches (D-Link, TP-Link, Netgear)
- Tried different Ethernet cables
None of these helped - All it takes a few seconds to play until the problems start. It's very easy to reproduce here in any configuration.

Devialet is the only device that is having problems on my network. Streaming to other Roon RAAT zones work perfectly fine.

[PeppaPig]

A bit disappointed but not too bad. I still love my Devialet, best integrated amp ever.

There are many other branded amplifier never get updated for years and still selling like hot cake.

I am actually sick of unless upgrade and then another upgrade. The current Pro product is almost perfect.

[ssfas]

I've looked back at the replies and and the things that are not happening are:
1. Tidal or Qobuz onboard. No loss - Roon has them onboard and Roon's Qobuz isn't up to the quality of the Qobuz app. I agree it is a huge hassle and there are plenty ways of playing Tidal and Qobuz.
2. Config onboard (wireless control). The only things I might want to reset are the phono settings, and that can be done using the remote. Most people probably use the configurator and forget about it for months or years end. I don't see any benefit and I agree with Mathieu that having two ways of doing the same thing can only cause problems.
3. DSP. This is a nice idea but very difficult to implement anything useful. Auralic promised DSP onboard, but it never happened either. It is very speaker dependent, so probably wishful thinking.
4. Fixing internet problems that cannot be duplicated.

1. You missed Deezer, Bluetooth and Webradios that were promised in addition to Qobuz and Tidal. It's just not right to market / "sell" the Core Infinity upgrades based on these features that they are not going to implement.
2. If you don't have a need for this -> it doesn't mean that this wouldn't be a useful feature for other people. I think this would be a good feature since it's slightly annoying and old-fashioned to play with the memory cards.
4. What internet problems? All it takes 5 seconds to duplicate the issue on my network at gigabit speed. And yes, I have tried many different network configurations so far (with the help from Roon, Devialet and my dealer):
- Connecting all devices directly to the router
- Tried different routers (Cable company, Asus, Netgear, Apple Airport Extreme).
- Tried different settings on the routers
- Tried different unmanaged gigabit switches (D-Link, TP-Link, Netgear)
- Tried different Ethernet cables
None of these helped - All it takes a few seconds to play until the problems start. It's very easy to reproduce here in any configuration.

Devialet is the only device that is having problems on my network. Streaming to other Roon RAAT zones work perfectly fine.

1. Never heard of Deezer. Bluetooth is still being promised. I do radio by Airplay from an iPad. There are a huge number of really good ways of playing radio, I use BBC iPlayer Radio.

2. The reason why several companies stick with SD cards, which are hardly redundant (all cameras use them) is because you can always revert to the stored online configuration. If you can program something two ways they will get out of sync and are people expecting direct wireless configuration to update the web configuration? That's a recipe for disaster. The SD card route is quick and effective and if it ain't broke, why fix it?

3. My system works fine wirelessly from the modem via an 8-port Netgear switch to an Asus RT-N66U router, then wireless, and the only setting I had to make was to set the Asus to access point mode. I then plug in an ethernet cable from my Roon server and it switches to playing wired. If I have the ethernet cable and the access point active when I power up the Expert it produces the slow play error. All I have to do is power it up with the ethernet cable disconnected, it sets up wireless, then plug in the ethernet cable and it switches to wired. This is all done in Roon Ready mode.

Have you done the most basic set-up: Asus router in access point mode using a local network, ethernet cable from modem to access point, Expert wireless settings for the local network in DHCP mode? The problem could of course also be with your modem. 

If that fails, have you tried taking it to a friend's house and doing a basic set-up using the Asus in access point mode on a different network? All you need is the Expert, the Asus, one ethernet cable and a phone to send some music by uPnP.

[ZincAlloy]

I've looked back at the replies and and the things that are not happening are:
1. Tidal or Qobuz onboard. No loss - Roon has them onboard and Roon's Qobuz isn't up to the quality of the Qobuz app. I agree it is a huge hassle and there are plenty ways of playing Tidal and Qobuz.
2. Config onboard (wireless control). The only things I might want to reset are the phono settings, and that can be done using the remote. Most people probably use the configurator and forget about it for months or years end. I don't see any benefit and I agree with Mathieu that having two ways of doing the same thing can only cause problems.
3. DSP. This is a nice idea but very difficult to implement anything useful. Auralic promised DSP onboard, but it never happened either. It is very speaker dependent, so probably wishful thinking.
4. Fixing internet problems that cannot be duplicated.

Hi - ref point 3, Auralic Aries range (both G1 and G2) do have onboard DSP - PEQ and room correction. It’s also available for the original Aries Femto and LE models, but not the Mini.  Haven’t yet tried this, as the Kiis also provide customisation facilities via Boundary Control and customisable filters.

ATB, Ken

[ssfas]

ZincAlloy pid='85736' dateline='1563898437']

I've looked back at the replies and and the things that are not happening are:
1. Tidal or Qobuz onboard. No loss - Roon has them onboard and Roon's Qobuz isn't up to the quality of the Qobuz app. I agree it is a huge hassle and there are plenty ways of playing Tidal and Qobuz.
2. Config onboard (wireless control). The only things I might want to reset are the phono settings, and that can be done using the remote. Most people probably use the configurator and forget about it for months or years end. I don't see any benefit and I agree with Mathieu that having two ways of doing the same thing can only cause problems.
3. DSP. This is a nice idea but very difficult to implement anything useful. Auralic promised DSP onboard, but it never happened either. It is very speaker dependent, so probably wishful thinking.
4. Fixing internet problems that cannot be duplicated.

Hi - ref point 3, Auralic Aries range (both G1 and G2) do have onboard DSP - PEQ and room correction. It’s also available for the original Aries Femto and LE models, but not the Mini.  Haven’t yet tried this, as the Kiis also provide customisation facilities via Boundary Control and customisable filters.

ATB, Ken

That's good to know. It has taken them some years. SAM is DSP, it is much easier to implement in fully active systems like Kii3 and D&D 8c. 

Meanwhile, on the slow play error, I've solved it on my Expert Pro (it was s start-up issue) and it never occurs, but I just got it on my Aries Mini, twice on the same 24/96 file. That suggests it's more likely to be a Roon issue.

[thumb5]

Meanwhile, on the slow play error, I've solved it on my Expert Pro (it was s start-up issue) and it never occurs, but I just got it on my Aries Mini, twice on the same 24/96 file. That suggests it's more likely to be a Roon issue.

To be more precise, you haven't solved it but rather you've found a work-around that happens to stop it occurring in your set-up.

[ssfas]

Meanwhile, on the slow play error, I've solved it on my Expert Pro (it was s start-up issue) and it never occurs, but I just got it on my Aries Mini, twice on the same 24/96 file. That suggests it's more likely to be a Roon issue.

To be more precise, you haven't solved it but rather you've found a work-around that happens to stop it occurring in your set-up.

Actually I am connecting my Expert direct by ethernet from an Innuos Zen Mk3. Devialet support said that this is not recommended and may cause problems. It does because I get the slow play error if both wired and wireless attach at the same time when doing a fresh power up (i.e. plugging and plugging in). However, the direct route works if the ethernet cable is plugged in after powering up and there are no errors. So I am doing something that is not recommended, but it still works and it is no inconvenience as I rarely have to unplug (maybe once a month at most) and when I do I'm at the unit as it involves plugging and plugging the power cable. 

If I do what they recommend, just go wirelessly from the router, without the ethernet cable from the server to the Expert, it works flawlessly. Just power up and it plays perfectly for Roon Ready or any other source.

I am playing the same album that produced errors from Qobuz on Roon to Aries, but this time from Qobuz onboard the Aries. No errors. The Aries is wireless from the modem, about 2m away. The Roon server is hard wired to the modem, mostly fibre optic, and does not go through any switch. This strongly suggests the errors are coming from Roon.

[Bwaze]

Sounds pretty depressive to me:

Devialet acknowledged that they have not been focused on the Expert series for a while, and they have not made as much progress with it as they would have liked.  This is mainly because for the last couple of years their resources have been stretched to deliver the Reactor which was released last December.  They are looking to recruit more software engineers but it is not easy to find the right people.  This means it will be a while before significant resources are available to work on the Expert.

I can just say that I am glad not to spend money for a Pro and CI upgrade of my 200. Spent quite a bit of money for it in beginning of 2016. Shortly after that Devialet offered an upgrade to 220 Pro with CI for almost 3/4 of the value of my 200. That sounded just crazy to me, so I opted to wait if this new upgrade will work miracles...

More than three years later, and Pro models with CI look like an end of the line product just as much as my 200, with almost no major hardware or software benefits.

I am thinking of making backup configuration files for lots of different options, if Devialet someday decides that supporting such an old product is not really worth it for them. I know all the permutations of all different options will make a very very large number of files, but I am simply not confident in Devialet's continued support.

[David A]

@ssfas

You have just explained why you don't get the problem. It does not occur if you are using the Devialet's wifi input, it only occurs if you are using a gigabit wired connection to the Devialet and it does not occur for everyone who uses the gigabit wired connection. For some such as me it occurs rarely and is not a big issue, for others it occurs a lot and is a big issue. It should not occur with a wired ethernet connection.

You say your experience strongly suggests the errors are coming from Roon. I have a separate HT setup in a different room. It includes an Oppo BD103 disc player which, like my Devialet, is Roon Ready and which is also connected to the network via a wired gigabit ethernet connection. Sending a 192/24 resolution stream from Roon triggers the problem with my Devialet but the problem does not occur with the Oppo. Other people with other Roon Ready endpoint devices besides their Devialet also report the problem occurring with their Devialet but not with their other endpoints.  If Roon works flawlessly with other Roon Ready endpoints on the same network and not with the Devialet, then that suggests the problem does not come from Roon or from the network but from the endpoint which has the problem and that endpoint is my Devialet.

[mdconnelly]

Sounds pretty depressive to me:

Devialet acknowledged that they have not been focused on the Expert series for a while, and they have not made as much progress with it as they would have liked.  This is mainly because for the last couple of years their resources have been stretched to deliver the Reactor which was released last December.  They are looking to recruit more software engineers but it is not easy to find the right people.  This means it will be a while before significant resources are available to work on the Expert.

I can just say that I am glad not to spend money for a Pro and CI upgrade of my 200. Spent quite a bit of money for it in beginning of 2016. Shortly after that Devialet offered an upgrade to 220 Pro with CI for almost 3/4 of the value of my 200. That sounded just crazy to me, so I opted to wait if this new upgrade will work miracles...

More than three years later, and Pro models with CI look like an end of the line product just as much as my 200, with almost no major hardware or software benefits.

I am thinking of making backup configuration files for lots of different options, if Devialet someday decides that supporting such an old product is not really worth it for them. I know all the permutations of all different options will make a very very large number of files, but I am simply not confident in Devialet's continued support.

@Bwaze - hindsight being what it is, I believe you made a very wise choice.    I'm also a bit concerned with dependence upon the Devialet website to forever provide access to the configurator.  Surely they must have the config files documented somewhere.... Anyone ever see anything like that?    That would at least provide an ability to modify the config files outside of dependence on the Devialet website configurator.