Upgrade 120

[Sailor4W]

Hi

Roon always requires a separate server to run the Roon Core, ideally something like a small dedicated PC or it can be run on more powerful Network Attached Storage units.

The Roon Ready name means that the player (amplifier) can communicate with the core by RAAT which seems to be the most reliable network streaming option.

Roon currently can work with Devialet experts (CI or not) using its own inbuilt AIR driver.

Devialet have confirmed that they are working on implementing RAAT for CI equipped devices so they will be fully Roon ready sometime in the future, supposedly this year.

Cheers

Chris

Thanks for the explanation!

[Sailor4W]

@Sailor4W -- to expand a little on what @Chris Marshall said above:

There are three main parts to the Roon system architecture:
- the Core, typically a Mac or PC, which co-ordinates the whole system
- (one or more) Controls, typically a computer, phone or pad that runs the Roon UI and allows you to interact with Roon
- (one or more) Outputs, which are devices capable of playing music -- such as a Devialet Expert

So for a minimal system you'd use an Expert as the output device and a Mac or PC as the core and control.  You can add phones/pads to provide additional controls, and/or other output devices as needed.

If you're using Roon, the Devialet AIR application is of very limited use.  The Roon UI (on the Control device(s)) does everything you'll need.

You're right that it's not 100% guaranteed that the CI-equipped Expert Pros will become Roon Ready.  However Devialet have stated publicly that it is the top priority on their roadmap.  At an event held at Oxford Audio Consultants in July, they said they'd been working on RAAT actively since May and expect it to be released by the end of the year.

Good news that Devialet seems to set high priority to developing a Roon Ready solution! Once that is available, I guess it becomes downloadable without having to upgrade the CI board? As I mentally decided to have my 120 upgraded to Expert 220 Pro with CI, I wonder if it would be better to wait till Devialet makes the Roon Ready upgrade available?

Thanks for all your input, great forum here!

[David A]

Good news that Devialet seems to set high priority to developing a Roon Ready solution! Once that is available, I guess it becomes downloadable without having to upgrade the CI board? As I mentally decided to have my 120 upgraded to Expert 220 Pro with CI, I wonder if it would be better to wait till Devialet makes the Roon Ready upgrade available?

Thanks for all your input, great forum here!

All if the comments I've seen from Devialet in relation to Roon Ready status have been in relation to the Expert Pro models with the CI board installed, and one of the main reasons for the development of the CI board was to improve streaming. It should also be noted that the CI board includes a Linux processing chip which the models without the board lack. That makes the models with the CI board capable of running firmware that the earlier models can not run. Every available Roon Ready endpoint I've heard about contains a processing chip and runs firmware which includes Roon Ready code.

I could be wrong but I don't think that the amps without the CI board will have their firmware upgraded to make them Roon Ready. I think it's only going to be a CI board feature. If the Roon Ready update is a must have for you and you're trying to decide whether or not you need to get your 120 upgraded, then I'd be querying Devialet about whether the 120 and other pre-CI board models are going to get an update bringing Roon Ready capability to them because I think the answer to that question is "no" and you will need to have your 120 upgraded to a CI board model if you want that feature.

[Sailor4W]

Good news that Devialet seems to set high priority to developing a Roon Ready solution! Once that is available, I guess it becomes downloadable without having to upgrade the CI board? As I mentally decided to have my 120 upgraded to Expert 220 Pro with CI, I wonder if it would be better to wait till Devialet makes the Roon Ready upgrade available?

Thanks for all your input, great forum here!

All if the comments I've seen from Devialet in relation to Roon Ready status have been in relation to the Expert Pro models with the CI board installed, and one of the main reasons for the development of the CI board was to improve streaming. It should also be noted that the CI board includes a Linux processing chip which the models without the board lack. That makes the models with the CI board capable of running firmware that the earlier models can not run. Every available Roon Ready endpoint I've heard about contains a processing chip and runs firmware which includes Roon Ready code.

I could be wrong but I don't think that the amps without the CI board will have their firmware upgraded to make them Roon Ready. I think it's only going to be a CI board feature. If the Roon Ready update is a must have for you and you're trying to decide whether or not you need to get your 120 upgraded, then I'd be querying Devialet about whether the 120 and other pre-CI board models are going to get an update bringing Roon Ready capability to them because I think the answer to that question is "no" and you will need to have your 120 upgraded to a CI board model if you want that feature.

Apart from Roon, as far as I understand, the CI upgrade enables streaming of Qobuz and Tidal, among other providers, correct? Is there an app for this? Sorry for all these questions, but Devialet's concept with Core Infinity looks a bit puzzling to me. Others, such as Aurender and Auralic, provide a much clearer concept.

[David A]

Apart from Roon, as far as I understand, the CI upgrade enables streaming of Qobuz and Tidal, among other providers, correct? Is there an app for this? Sorry for all these questions, but Devialet's concept with Core Infinity looks a bit puzzling to me. Others, such as Aurender and Auralic, provide a much clearer concept.

So far the CI board allows streaming Spotify and I understand you use Spotify's own app. I don't use Spotify so I've never looked at how it works. The CI board currently doesn't accept Tidal or Qobuz streams but if and when it does I assume you will use those services own apps. 

I think the concept with Core Infinity is reasonably clear but it's a different concept to that of Aurender and Auralic for a very good reason. The Devialet is a DAC and amplifier and you stream the digital data to it for conversion and amplification. The Aurender and Auralic devices are devices which provide the digital stream to a Devialet or other DAC or amplifier. In effect devices like an Aurender or Auralic, or servers running Roon, or streaming services like Spotify/Tidal/Qobuz are sources for endpoints such as a DAC or devices like the Devialet which is a combination of DAC and amplifier. In other words the Aurender or Auralic, or my Antipodes, are at one end of the signal path and the Devialet with its CI board is at the other end of the signal path. They're doing different jobs and you need devices which do both jobs in your system. One can't be a substitute for the other, they're both necessary and they complement each other. If you're expecting the Devialet to work on a similar concept to a device like an Aurender or Auralic which serves a different function in your system then I think you're making a mistake. 

As far as Tidal and Qobuz go, Roon currently can access and stream Tidal to the Devialet and that works very well in my system. Roon have also announced that they are in discussions with Qobuz about adding similar functionality for that service. I'm not aware of what Devialet's plans in relation to Tidal and Qobuz are but Qobuz doesn't interest me at present because it isn't available in Australia and they don't seem to have any plans to service Australia at present. Even if Devialet did provide Tidal access via the CI board I would stick with using Roon to access Tidal because Roon integrates Tidal access with access to my own music library which is very convenient in several ways. If Roon adds Qobuz to its services in the same way as it included Tidal then Roon would be a better way to access Qobuz if you're using Roon. If you don't use Roon, then having those options with the CI board might be useful to you depending on how you currently access those services. What you have to realise when it comes to streaming services like Spotify/Tidal/Qobuz is that you can already get their streams to your Devialet by at least one method and possibly by several alternative methods. Adding functionality for those streams to the CI board just gives you another alternative way of accessing those services. It probably isn't going to deliver an improvement in sound quality but the interface you use to get the stream to the Devialet will change. That's only of benefit to you if the new interface has an advantage of some kind for you and it may not offer you any advantage. It's up to you to work out whether or not it offers you benefits.

[Sailor4W]

Apart from Roon, as far as I understand, the CI upgrade enables streaming of Qobuz and Tidal, among other providers, correct? Is there an app for this? Sorry for all these questions, but Devialet's concept with Core Infinity looks a bit puzzling to me. Others, such as Aurender and Auralic, provide a much clearer concept.

So far the CI board allows streaming Spotify and I understand you use Spotify's own app. I don't use Spotify so I've never looked at how it works. The CI board currently doesn't accept Tidal or Qobuz streams but if and when it does I assume you will use those services own apps. 

I think the concept with Core Infinity is reasonably clear but it's a different concept to that of Aurender and Auralic for a very good reason. The Devialet is a DAC and amplifier and you stream the digital data to it for conversion and amplification. The Aurender and Auralic devices are devices which provide the digital stream to a Devialet or other DAC or amplifier. In effect devices like an Aurender or Auralic, or servers running Roon, or streaming services like Spotify/Tidal/Qobuz are sources for endpoints such as a DAC or devices like the Devialet which is a combination of DAC and amplifier. In other words the Aurender or Auralic, or my Antipodes, are at one end of the signal path and the Devialet with its CI board is at the other end of the signal path. They're doing different jobs and you need devices which do both jobs in your system. One can't be a substitute for the other, they're both necessary and they complement each other. If you're expecting the Devialet to work on a similar concept to a device like an Aurender or Auralic which serves a different function in your system then I think you're making a mistake. 

As far as Tidal and Qobuz go, Roon currently can access and stream Tidal to the Devialet and that works very well in my system. Roon have also announced that they are in discussions with Qobuz about adding similar functionality for that service. I'm not aware of what Devialet's plans in relation to Tidal and Qobuz are but Qobuz doesn't interest me at present because it isn't available in Australia and they don't seem to have any plans to service Australia at present. Even if Devialet did provide Tidal access via the CI board I would stick with using Roon to access Tidal because Roon integrates Tidal access with access to my own music library which is very convenient in several ways. If Roon adds Qobuz to its services in the same way as it included Tidal then Roon would be a better way to access Qobuz if you're using Roon. If you don't use Roon, then having those options with the CI board might be useful to you depending on how you currently access those services. What you have to realise when it comes to streaming services like Spotify/Tidal/Qobuz is that you can already get their streams to your Devialet by at least one method and possibly by several alternative methods. Adding functionality for those streams to the CI board just gives you another alternative way of accessing those services. It probably isn't going to deliver an improvement in sound quality but the interface you use to get the stream to the Devialet will change. That's only of benefit to you if the new interface has an advantage of some kind for you and it may not offer you any advantage. It's up to you to work out whether or not it offers you benefits.

All right, thanks for the explanation, I get it now! Tidal is available via Roon; I guess here in Europe Qobuz as well. I shall upgrade my Le 120 to the Expert 220 Pro with Core Infinity, but I stay with my Aurender for direct Qobuz/Tidal integration.

[Sailor4W]

I am still struggling with the concept of Core Infinity: would it be possible, for example, having Audirvana running on my MacBook Pro that is in my study and stream Audirvana to the Devialet in my living room? Is that a scenario that would work with Core Infinity? Sorry for the umb questions, but I am hopelessly confused with the concept of Devialet Air and Core Infinity. Thanks for your patience!

[David A]

I am still struggling with the concept of Core Infinity: would it be possible, for example, having Audirvana running on my MacBook Pro that is in my study and stream Audirvana to the Devialet in my living room? Is that a scenario that would work with Core Infinity? Sorry for the umb questions, but I am hopelessly confused with the concept of Devialet Air and Core Infinity. Thanks for your patience!

Let's try to unpack this in some other way.

The CI streaming inputs are currently Devialet AIR, UPnp, Airplay, and Spotify Connect. If you can run the Devialet AIR app on your MacBook and use it to stream Audivarna to your Devialet, then that's one option. Another option available to you with a Mac is Airplay but that doesn't involve Audivarna. Yet another option which doesn't involve Audivarna would be to use a UPnP app such as JRiver or Plex or something similar to stream the music from your music library files on the Mac to the Devialet. All of those options don't require an intermediate device between the Mac and the Devialet and the other thing to remember is that the CI streaming inputs use either the Devialet's physical ethernet input or the wifi input because they require the Devialet to be active on the network you're streaming over.

If you want to bring the MacBook Pro to the same room as the Devialet you can connect it to the Devialet via USB and use the Devialet as a USB DAC.

Alternatively, if you don't want to have the MacBook Pro in the room with the Devialet, then you can look for some intermediary device or other software which can connect to the Devialet.

In the old days life was simple. You connected a source device (turntable/CD player/tape deck/radio tuner) to a pre-amp via an interconnect and that was it. Things aren't really much different but we've got a much wider group of sources to provide our music signal, we've got a wider range of inputs on the Devialet to accept the signal, and wifi, ethernet network connections and USB to make the connection from source to Devialet as well as the range of physical interconnects we've had for years. That's the way to start thinking about what you're trying to do. Take a look at the software you're using on the MacBook Pro and how it can output a musical signal. Take a look at the inputs on the Devialet and see what they can accept. If there's a match between what you can output from the MacBook and what the Devialet can accept, then that will tell you what kind of a connection you need to make between the MacBook and the Devialet. If there isn't a match between MacBook output and Devialet input, then is there some sort of device that you can insert between them which can accept an output from the MacBook and convert it to some different sort of output which the Devialet can accept.

And if you can't make a working connection between the MacBook and the Devialet then you need to change something about the source at the MacBook end or change the Devialet to something which can make a working connection with the MacBook, remembering that in both cases the connection between the source and the endpoint can be direct or may include another device which facilitates the working connection.


That's the process you need to work through whether your Devialet has the CI board or not. The only thing the CI board does in terms of streaming functionality is to increase your options but it won't make every option that someone can come up with possible and there's no guarantee that Devialet will evermake the CI board compatible with every streaming service or server software. In fact I think you can guarantee that they won't because it's probably impossible to keep up with all of the changes in streaming services and server software options so the CI board will be useful for some people but not for others. There's also no guarantee that if you use a particular streaming service or server software now to stream to your Devialet, you'll still be using the same streaming service or server software in the future and if you change your streaming service and/or server software which is something people actually do for all sorts of reasons, there's no guarantee that the new streaming service or server software is going to be able to work with your Devialet in the same way and with the same ease as your current method does. Whatever the CI board does, and it does a number of things, it isn't a silver bullet which solves all problems, now and forever, and it isn't going to become such a solution.

[Sailor4W]

I am still struggling with the concept of Core Infinity: would it be possible, for example, having Audirvana running on my MacBook Pro that is in my study and stream Audirvana to the Devialet in my living room? Is that a scenario that would work with Core Infinity? Sorry for the umb questions, but I am hopelessly confused with the concept of Devialet Air and Core Infinity. Thanks for your patience!

Let's try to unpack this in some other way.

The CI streaming inputs are currently Devialet AIR, UPnp, Airplay, and Spotify Connect. If you can run the Devialet AIR app on your MacBook and use it to stream Audivarna to your Devialet, then that's one option. Another option available to you with a Mac is Airplay but that doesn't involve Audivarna. Yet another option which doesn't involve Audivarna would be to use a UPnP app such as JRiver or Plex or something similar to stream the music from your music library files on the Mac to the Devialet. All of those options don't require an intermediate device between the Mac and the Devialet and the other thing to remember is that the CI streaming inputs use either the Devialet's physical ethernet input or the wifi input because they require the Devialet to be active on the network you're streaming over.

If you want to bring the MacBook Pro to the same room as the Devialet you can connect it to the Devialet via USB and use the Devialet as a USB DAC.

Alternatively, if you don't want to have the MacBook Pro in the room with the Devialet, then you can look for some intermediary device or other software which can connect to the Devialet.

In the old days life was simple. You connected a source device (turntable/CD player/tape deck/radio tuner) to a pre-amp via an interconnect and that was it. Things aren't really much different but we've got a much wider group of sources to provide our music signal, we've got a wider range of inputs on the Devialet to accept the signal, and wifi, ethernet network connections and USB to make the connection from source to Devialet as well as the range of physical interconnects we've had for years. That's the way to start thinking about what you're trying to do. Take a look at the software you're using on the MacBook Pro and how it can output a musical signal. Take a look at the inputs on the Devialet and see what they can accept. If there's a match between what you can output from the MacBook and what the Devialet can accept, then that will tell you what kind of a connection you need to make between the MacBook and the Devialet. If there isn't a match between MacBook output and Devialet input, then is there some sort of device that you can insert between them which can accept an output from the MacBook and convert it to some different sort of output which the Devialet can accept.

And if you can't make a working connection between the MacBook and the Devialet then you need to change something about the source at the MacBook end or change the Devialet to something which can make a working connection with the MacBook, remembering that in both cases the connection between the source and the endpoint can be direct or may include another device which facilitates the working connection.


That's the process you need to work through whether your Devialet has the CI board or not. The only thing the CI board does in terms of streaming functionality is to increase your options but it won't make every option that someone can come up with possible and there's no guarantee that Devialet will evermake the CI board compatible with every streaming service or server software. In fact I think you can guarantee that they won't because it's probably impossible to keep up with all of the changes in streaming services and server software options so the CI board will be useful for some people but not for others. There's also no guarantee that if you use a particular streaming service or server software now to stream to your Devialet, you'll still be using the same streaming service or server software in the future and if you change your streaming service and/or server software which is something people actually do for all sorts of reasons, there's no guarantee that the new streaming service or server software is going to be able to work with your Devialet in the same way and with the same ease as your current method does. Whatever the CI board does, and it does a number of things, it isn't a silver bullet which solves all problems, now and forever, and it isn't going to become such a solution.

Hey, you're great! You gave me the right hints! I downloaded Devialet AIR onto my MacBook Pro, in Audio Devices I set the output to Devialet AIR and opened the Tidal app on my computer and the thing started to stream nicely. First impression: very good! Now I need to get it to work with the Qobuz app and there we go!

I was beginning to be afraid of looking like the biggest digital idiot, not being aware that the era of streaming has begun   . I just couldn't get a foot into this Devialet business since I was fixed to Roon and not knowing realising, even though it had been mentioned in numerous replies, that AIR is available.

I still need to check how reliable AIR works. So far no drop-outs, but let's see once my wife starts to hack her iPhone mails if streaming is still smooth and without hick-ups.

Thanks so much for your help!

Paul

[Sailor4W]

I streamed music for several hours from my MacBook pro via AIR to my Devialet. First I tried Tidal via its own app. Initially, it worked OK, but after a few minutes there were massive dropouts that made listening impossible. So I switched to the Qobuz app and there things were beautiful: no droputs, flawless streaming for hours. I don't know why Tidal creates so many problems, but I am not upset as I like Qobuz so much better. The app is really, really good. I almost approaches Roon, not quite though, but there's so much information included along with albums suggested from other artists that I kept browsing and detecting so many nice albums that easily spent all evening with the app.
SQ-wise, streaming via AIR, the Devialet 120 sounds really, really good!