Upgrade 120

[David A]

"I was beginning to be afraid of looking like the biggest digital idiot, not being aware that the era of streaming has begun"— I spent a few years like that after I knew that the era of streaming had begun. I'm 71 and grew up in an era of genuine "plug and play": get a turntable, connect phono cable to integrated amplifier by, select phono input on amp, lower stylus to LP on turntable, music! They gave you user manuals but once you had read one amp manual you had read them all. Everything plugged and played the same way. Digital started to change that and adding computer networks into the mix is where I hit the wall for several years. I bought my 130 last year and started my learning curve. It took me a while to get things working but I eventually did.

Nearly 18 months later I'm no longer trying to stream my iTunes library using Devialet AIR on my Mac Mini via wifi (never could get that working properly) but I'm now running a wired connection from my router in one room to the room with the audio system, I'm using an Antipodes server running Roon and feeding the 130 (now a 140 after CI board upgrade and firmware update) by ethernet, I'm using Tidal (no Qobuz service in Australia). Everything is working at the moment and I'm very happy but it's been a bumpy road to get there, very bumpy at times.

Once things start to click with what you're doing, it starts to get a lot easier. Just keep plugging away at it.

[Sailor4W]

"I was beginning to be afraid of looking like the biggest digital idiot, not being aware that the era of streaming has begun"— I spent a few years like that after I knew that the era of streaming had begun. I'm 71 and grew up in an era of genuine "plug and play": get a turntable, connect phono cable to integrated amplifier by, select phono input on amp, lower stylus to LP on turntable, music! They gave you user manuals but once you had read one amp manual you had read them all. Everything plugged and played the same way. Digital started to change that and adding computer networks into the mix is where I hit the wall for several years. I bought my 130 last year and started my learning curve. It took me a while to get things working but I eventually did.

Nearly 18 months later I'm no longer trying to stream my iTunes library using Devialet AIR on my Mac Mini via wifi (never could get that working properly) but I'm now running a wired connection from my router in one room to the room with the audio system, I'm  using an Antipodes server running Roon and feeding the 130 (now a 140 after CI board upgrade and firmware update) by ethernet, I'm using Tidal (no Qobuz service in Australia). Everything is working at the moment and I'm very happy but it's been a bumpy road to get there, very bumpy at times.

Once things start to click with what you're doing, it starts to get a lot easier. Just keep plugging away at it.

During my high school years, I used to be a HiFi aficionado and we had an audiophile club where we met regularly and discussed the newest amplifier/loudspeaker developments. We were crazy about that stuff. Once entering university, we lost contact, and, naturally, other things became more important. Life took on and HiFi was only a distant memory. Till about five years ago, I re-discovered my old passion, just to find that listening to music took on a very different route than I was used to years ago. Except LPs/CDs, I went the classical route of putting together a DAC, pre-amp and power amp. For a music server, I decided on an Aurender N100H, simply because it looked like a universally applicable streamer/renderer. I was kind of happy with my system, but it was big and heavy and did look clumsy. My wife kept complaining that it ruined the look of our living room.
Till I had a demo model of the Devialet 120 for a few days: all these large boxes reduced into one shiny metal box, that sounded phenomenal, and that pleased the eye of my wife 
I admit, streaming with Devialet's AIR could be a bit smoother, but again, at least with Qobuz, it works almost flawlessly. And it definitely sounds better than my Aurender, airier and lighter and more detailed. I like that thing.
Now I have to find out how to integrate my audio files stored on an HD. Any easy solution to that?
I am definitely determined to get the upgrade, for sure. The question is whether to upgrade to the 140 Pro or the 220 Pro, naturally with the Core Infinity upgrade. Any ideas on that as well?
Thanks for your help!
Paul

[Pim]

I am definitely determined to get the upgrade, for sure. The question is whether to upgrade to the 140 Pro or the 220 Pro, naturally with the Core Infinity upgrade. Any ideas on that as well?
Thanks for your help!
Paul

I found that the extras power going from 200 to 900 Watt made it clearly better at lower volumes. I'm not sure how much of a difference 80 Watt will do though. It depends largely on the speakers you're running. The Dynaudio C1 loves power.

[Sailor4W]

I am definitely determined to get the upgrade, for sure. The question is whether to upgrade to the 140 Pro or the 220 Pro, naturally with the Core Infinity upgrade. Any ideas on that as well?
Thanks for your help!
Paul

I found that the extras power going from 200 to 900 Watt made it clearly better at lower volumes. I'm not sure how much of a difference 80 Watt will do though. It depends largely on the speakers you're running. The Dynaudio C1 loves power.

+900 Watts, WOW 

For sure, I don't have the most efficient speakers, ATC SCM 11s, 84 dB sensitivity. They do need a bit of push, for sure! So you would recommend going for the 220 Pro?

[David A]

"Now I have to find out how to integrate my audio files stored on an HD. Any easy solution to that?"

Integrate with what?

If it's with one or more streaming services so you can use a common interface to access both files and services, start looking at server offerings. By server offerings I mean both specific server hardware products like your Aurender and also Auralic which use their own server software, and also server software applications such as Roon, Plex and so on which you can run on your Mac or on a separate computer or NAS drive. Look at things like which streaming services are supported and what music file formats are supported. If you've been using iTunes on your Mac then a lot of your files are likely to be in ALAC (Apple Lossless) format and iTunes doesn't support FLAC but a lot of server products support FLAC but not ALAC which means you either eliminate those products from your short list or start thinking about converting your files from ALAC to FLAC or something else that the product you're looking at can support.

If it's integrating music files from various locations and in various formats, that's a bit easier. Start looking at server products as above and look for those which support all, or as many as possible of the file formats you have.

Either way, you're then going to be faced with getting the server application you end up using, whether that comes with specific hardware or it's a software product that you run on a platform of your choice, to access your files. That can be as easy as telling the software where your files currently are or as hard as moving them from their current location or locations to another drive the software can access. The software assembles a database of info about the files including their location, presents that to you via its interface, and you select what you want to hear.

Once  you've got a shortlist of server options, then start thinking about how you're going to get the music to your Devialet. Do you want to have the server side of things in a different room to your Devialet in which case you need to think about whether you're going to use wifi or a wired ethernet connection, or  you can do something like using a wifi extender with ethernet ports near the Devialet and running an ethernet cable from it to the Devialet. Alternatively you can site a physical server or NAS drive near the Devialet and connect both it and the Devialet to your network. Then there's the control question, do you use a computer in the same room as the Devialet or do  you use an app on a tablet like an iPad which is connected to your network to control the server? There's several options there. I started off trying wifi to get the music to my 130, went to running a wifi extender next to the 130 and connecting them by ethernet, and eventually getting an installer to instal ethernet cabling from my router in one room to a wall point near the 130, connecting the wall point to an ethernet switch, and connecting both my Antipodes server and my 130 to the switch as well. That's given me the best results but if you're in rented accommodation you may not be able to instal a wired connection between rooms.

While you're researching the server hardware/software options, don't forget to take a look at the various user forums available for many servers and also web sites which concentrate on computer audio for comments about how easy or hard the various products are to work with, what they do well or badly. how users feel about them, and what the things you need to look out for are. There's a lot of useful information available on the web about every option but you're going to have to sort out for yourself which info is reliable and which isn't. There are some threads here about various server/streaming options.

That's the process but there's one other aspect to consider and that's what kind of setup you want to put together. Just as there's a big DIY segment in audio, there's a big DIY segment in computer audio also. There are people here who are running servers they've made themselves and using connection strategies which involve all sorts of steps like rechecking digital data and galvanic isolation and lots of other things, and then there's the people like me who just connect a server running software like Roon with their music stored on the server's own hard drive and connecting the server to their Devialet via ethernet or USB. The system building process can be as hands on or hands off as you like and I'm not going to take sides on which is best. This is a hobby and different people have different interests and get their pleasure in different ways. Just pick an approach that works for you and that's as complicated or as simple as you're happy with. You want to enjoy what you're doing as much as you enjoy what you listen to.

About the only other thing I'd say is to remember the old carpentry adage: measure twice and cut once. Work out what you're going to do and make sure it can work before you do it. You don't want to string a system together only to find out when you turn everything on that the music isn't coming out of your speakers because the data can't get from your hard drive to your Devialet because something along the way can't do what you want it to do.

Addition: There's one other thing. If you have a turntable, do you want to digitise your LPs so you can stream digital files captured from your LPs to your Devialet. There are also ways of doing that though it can get a bit more complicated than just ripping a CD or SACD. First you need to convert the analog signal from your cartridge to a digital signal and then record the digital signal to a suitable file format. I haven't had a turntable setup for decades so I can't help you there but you can find info about how to do that on line if you look and there are products around which are designed to help you do that.

[Pim]

I am definitely determined to get the upgrade, for sure. The question is whether to upgrade to the 140 Pro or the 220 Pro, naturally with the Core Infinity upgrade. Any ideas on that as well?
Thanks for your help!
Paul

I found that the extras power going from 200 to 900 Watt made it clearly better at lower volumes. I'm not sure how much of a difference 80 Watt will do though. It depends largely on the speakers you're running. The Dynaudio C1 loves power.

+900 Watts, WOW 

For sure, I don't have the most efficient speakers, ATC SCM 11s, 84 dB sensitivity. They do need a bit of push, for sure! So you would recommend going for the 220 Pro?

That's 900 Watt into 6 Ohm. The Dynaudios are a 4 Ohm speaker...

[Sailor4W]

I found that the extras power going from 200 to 900 Watt made it clearly better at lower volumes. I'm not sure how much of a difference 80 Watt will do though. It depends largely on the speakers you're running. The Dynaudio C1 loves power.

+900 Watts, WOW 

For sure, I don't have the most efficient speakers, ATC SCM 11s, 84 dB sensitivity. They do need a bit of push, for sure! So you would recommend going for the 220 Pro?

That's 900 Watt into 6 Ohm. The Dynaudios are a 4 Ohm speaker...

You haven't blown away your house by any chance   Like Michael J. Fox in 'Back to the Future'?

I was wondering to what impedance the Devialets are rated. Do they stand 2 Ohm speakers?

[Confused]

@Sailor4W - I note from your comments on other threads that you are also thinking about new speakers. So if I was you, I would have a long hard think about what your "end game" system might be, or to put this another way, I think you run the risk of going for 140Pro, and then deciding later on some speakers later that could really do with the D220.

In short, I'd go for the 220Pro, if you settle for the 140Pro you will probably spend time thinking "I wonder what the 200Pro would be like"? Also, in the far distant future the 220Pro could be upgraded with a companion to 440Pro, and that will drive pretty much any speaker you would ever want. Just my view, but I cannot help thinking you would regret not making the jump to 220Pro.

[Sailor4W]

@Sailor4W - I note from your comments on other threads that you are also thinking about new speakers.  So if I was you, I would have a long hard think about what your "end game" system might be, or to put this another way, I think you run the risk of going for 140Pro, and then deciding later on some speakers later that could really do with the D220.

In short, I'd go for the 220Pro, if you settle for the 140Pro you will probably spend time thinking "I wonder what the 200Pro would be like"?  Also, in the far distant future the 220Pro could be upgraded with a companion to 440Pro, and that will drive pretty much any speaker you would ever want.  Just my view, but I cannot help thinking you would regret not making the jump to 220Pro.

Good suggestion! I'll go for the 220 Pro upgrade. I gave up thinking about new speakers, at least for a long while. I think I mentioned this before, the reason I wanted new speakers was because in combination with the very fast Devialet amp, my ATCs sounded a bit bright. Someone here in the forum suggested attenuating the treble by 2-3 dB. I did that and from then on, my ATCs sound just superb. So, finito, thinking about new speakers, at least for a loooong time.
I shall initiate the upgrade process in about two weeks time. I don't dare to think what I do while my Devialet is being upgraded in Paris. This thing is easy to get addicted to 

[Sailor4W]

"Now I have to find out how to integrate my audio files stored on an HD. Any easy solution to that?"

Integrate with what?

If it's with one or more streaming services so you can use a common interface to access both files and services, start looking at server offerings. By server offerings I mean both specific server hardware products like your Aurender and also Auralic which use their own server software, and also server software applications such as Roon, Plex and so on which you can run on your Mac or on a separate computer or NAS drive. Look at things like which streaming services are supported and what music file formats are supported. If you've been using iTunes on your Mac then a lot of your files are likely to be in ALAC (Apple Lossless) format and iTunes doesn't support FLAC but a lot of server products support FLAC but not ALAC which means you either eliminate those products from your short list or start thinking about converting your files from ALAC to FLAC or something else that the product you're looking at can support.

If it's integrating music files from various locations and in various formats, that's a bit easier. Start looking at server products as above and look for those which support all, or as many as possible of the file formats you have.

Either way, you're then going to be faced with getting the server application you end up using, whether that comes with specific hardware or it's a software product that you run on a platform of your choice, to access your files. That can be as easy as telling the software where your files currently are or as hard as moving them from their current location or locations to another drive the software can access. The software assembles a database of info about the files including their location, presents that to you via its interface, and you select what you want to hear.

Once  you've got a shortlist of server options, then start thinking about how you're going to get the music to your Devialet. Do you want to have the server side of things in a different room to your Devialet in which case you need to think about whether you're going to use wifi or a wired ethernet connection, or  you can do something like using a wifi extender with ethernet ports near the Devialet and running an ethernet cable from it to the Devialet. Alternatively you can site a physical server or NAS drive near the Devialet and connect both it and the Devialet to your network. Then there's the control question, do you use a computer in the same room as the Devialet or do  you use an app on a tablet like an iPad which is connected to your network to control the server? There's several options there. I started off trying wifi to get the music to my 130, went to running a wifi extender next to the 130 and connecting them by ethernet, and eventually getting an installer to instal ethernet cabling from my router in one room to a wall point near the 130, connecting the wall point to an ethernet switch, and connecting both my Antipodes server and my 130 to the switch as well. That's given me the best results but if you're in rented accommodation you may not be able to instal a wired connection between rooms.

While you're researching the server hardware/software options, don't forget to take a look at the various user forums available for many servers and also web sites which concentrate on computer audio for comments about how easy or hard the various products are to work with, what they do well or badly. how users feel about them, and what the things you need to look out for are. There's a lot of useful information available on the web about every option but you're going to have to sort out for yourself which info is reliable and which isn't. There are some threads here about various server/streaming options.

That's the process but there's one other aspect to consider and that's what kind of setup you want to put together. Just as there's a big DIY segment in audio, there's a big DIY segment in computer audio also. There are people here who are running servers they've made themselves and using connection strategies which involve all sorts of steps like rechecking digital data and galvanic isolation and lots of other things, and then there's the people like me who just connect a server running software like Roon with their music stored on the server's own hard drive and connecting the server to their Devialet via ethernet or USB. The system building process can be as hands on or hands off as you like and I'm not going to take sides on which is best. This is a hobby and different people have different interests and get their pleasure in different ways. Just pick an approach that works for you and that's as complicated or as simple as you're happy with. You want to enjoy what you're doing as much as you enjoy what you listen to.

About the only other thing I'd say is to remember the old carpentry adage: measure twice and cut once. Work out what you're going to do and make sure it can work before you do it. You don't want to string a system together only to find out when you turn everything on that the music isn't coming out of your speakers because the data can't get from your hard drive to your Devialet because something along the way can't do what you want it to do.

Addition: There's one other thing. If you have a turntable, do you want to digitise your LPs so you can stream digital files captured from your LPs to your Devialet. There are also ways of doing that though it can get a bit more complicated than just ripping a CD or SACD. First you need to convert the analog signal from your cartridge to a digital signal and then record the digital signal to a suitable file format. I haven't had a turntable setup for decades so I can't help you there but you can find info about how to do that on line if you look and there are products around which are designed to help you do that.

'If it's with one or more streaming services so you can use a common interface to access both files and services, start looking at server offerings. By server offerings I mean both specific server hardware products like your Aurender and also Auralic which use their own server software, and also server software applications such as Roon, Plex and so on which you can run on your Mac or on a separate computer or NAS drive. Look at things like which streaming services are supported and what music file formats are supported. If you've been using iTunes on your Mac then a lot of your files are likely to be in ALAC (Apple Lossless) format and iTunes doesn't support FLAC but a lot of server products support FLAC but not ALAC which means you either eliminate those products from your short list or start thinking about converting your files from ALAC to FLAC or something else that the product you're looking at can support.'

Server offerings: Aurender allows streaming as well as storing audio files locally on an HDD. The Aurender outputs the signal via USB that I so far connected to the Devialet. So far so good. I must say, though, that I do like streaming to the Devialet via AIR much better. The Aurender cannot be accessed via AIR. Through some sort of UPnP, maybe, but I haven't looked into it.
The other option, AURALiC is also a good one, but I don't know if it integrates easily into the Devialet setting.
I hardly used iTunes, so I mostly have AIFF, FLAC and very few MP4 (ALAC) files.

'Alternatively you can site a physical server or NAS drive near the Devialet and connect both it and the Devialet to your network. Then there's the control question, do you use a computer in the same room as the Devialet or do  you use an app on a tablet like an iPad which is connected to your network to control the server? There's several options there. I started off trying wifi to get the music to my 130, went to running a wifi extender next to the 130 and connecting them by ethernet, and eventually getting an installer to instal ethernet cabling from my router in one room to a wall point near the 130, connecting the wall point to an ethernet switch, and connecting both my Antipodes server and my 130 to the switch as well. That's given me the best results but if you're in rented accommodation you may not be able to instal a wired connection between rooms.'

I was thinking about a NAS, and of course, an external HDD. In that case, Audirvana Plus comes in handy as, since the latest updates, it does streaming, I guess also to a Devialet. Audirvana Plus also has a remote app running on an iPad, so the Mac controlling Audirvana along with the HDD can be located in another room. However, I am not so convinced about the sonic qualities of Audirvana Plus, and the remote app used to be unreliable. Maybe it improved with later versions.

Come to think of it, Roon might be the most versatile solution, although I hate to basically sacrifice one laptop just for Roon. I need to think a bit more about the options I have.

Thanks so much for your thorough thoughts!