Why are HiFi entusiasts negative to Phantoms ?

[sekriT]

I listened to 200 / B&W.  It was amazing.  But some high end guys call expert series "pizza box".  It is true that most of the discussions among them are selfishly subjective. Bottomline, there is no one right system for everyone.  Some people hear music different then others.  Same equipment will sound different in every room and furniture. Anyway, it's endless, long spending journey for the ultimate perfection -for your ears only. 

What amazes is that how come Devialet did it so right with the expert series but ignoring the Phantoms like bastard child? Maybe this was their first child, they learned their mistakes and made the expert series right. I won't be surprised if they come up with an updated Dialog hardware or different color phantoms.

[Damon]

McChicken,

It is a curious thing, I agree. I don't doubt that for many traditional hifi enthusiasts, the very non-traditional approach and form of the Phantom is something that 'just cannot be correct'.

Like you, we listen to streamed music 90% of the time, using Spotify and Deezer (both paid subscriptions, so possibly the better quality Deezer service). Better to have the music than constantly worry about the highest quality. In the same way, I love the simplicity of the expert series, and I'm also very intrigued by the Phantoms. The constant fussing with changing DAC's or cables or power supplies or yearning for the next step up the ladder is one of the aspect of hifi that I most wanted to get away from. I had a one-box Naim previously, and now have a one-box Devialet.

Was it soundstage (Jeff Fritz and co) that reviewed the Phantoms as outstanding musical products? Hans Weitzel. Anyhow, I think that they concentrated on the musical reproduction performance of the Phantoms, and did not consider the 'zero fuss factor' as a drawback. I'm referring to the lack of upgrade options, not dismissing any set up or dialogue difficulties some are experiencing.

Both the Phantom and Expert products do seriously reduce the opportunity (or possibly desire) to spend money on hardware or peripheral upgrades, so it is no surprise that anyone who is invested in expensive accessories, or who's interest in hifi is largely about playing with the gear, will have a hard time giving the Phantoms a fair trial. IMO.

[davidadamson]

Audiophiles (I think) are by nature very curious and always striving to extract the last bit (sic) out of music.
This is fine it is after all a hobby.
I have been on this merry go round for decades Yamaha, Cambridge, Naim, Linn, Quad, Revox, Goldmund to name a few amps
Acoustic research, Marantz, Vienna acoustic, Quad esl, Revel, Klipsch, MArtin Logan to name a few speakers. Add in numerous interconnects, speaker wires, Dacs, dsp equalizers. etc etc.
In some ways it is with sorrow that I leave this all behind, nothing more to do as I have two speakers on superb stands connected to my turntable, meridian CD and aurilac aries streamer, a remote.
Nothing left to buy and it upgrades itself, nothing left to do but listen to music...........................

[f1eng]

I think people who buy expensive hifi are both equipment and music lovers. The spectrum varies strongly from one end to the other though.
Some people take time to buy stuff they like then mainly ignore it and listen to music on it for years/decades before feeling like an update.
Others like to experiment with equipment a lot more and are always fiddling with one thing or another.
My opinion is that Devialet appeals to the first type and is almost the opposite of what the other type craves.
My experience is that the audiophiles who post on internet forums are mainly at the latter end of the spectrum so Devialet is unlikely to be popular on forums.
On top of this this type of audiophile will often be more experimenting with adding colour to the sound with their equipment choices (though they may not realise it) so, again, Devialet will not be their cup of tea.

[McChicken]

In some ways it is with sorrow that I leave this all behind, nothing more to do as I have two speakers on superb stands connected to my turntable, meridian CD and aurilac aries streamer, a remote.
Nothing left to buy and it upgrades itself, nothing left to do but listen to music...........................

David..you have for sure been through a lot of gear.
I am an engineer at heart professionally and private built my first speakers when I was 10 year old, but even more of all a Music Fanatic.
Since these massive on-line streaming services have started I do find amazing new and new for me artists every single day even though I have spent my whole life listening to music. If I compare to the quality of sound I can have in my car, headphones, and at home compared to what I use to have when young, everything sounds amazing. Yes I do put down more money than most people but on the other hand I do spend more time listening ( 1100 hours on Spotify only last year)
I have met a lot of Audiophiles that cannot listen to recordings/ productions that are not top notch, so they only listen to a few selected albums ( I use to be like that with Live recordings) but nowadays everything sounds more or less quite good.

So instead of tweaking the gear... Listen to music

[ogs]

I am not at all negative to Phantoms. I'd love to have a pair as my main speakers. As this would be stereo I'd need a Dialog, but I would rather go with just a pair of Phantoms. Problem is I am forced to go with Dialog to manage a pair of speakers. For a pair of stand alone Phantoms there is no way to assign left and right. I went as far as asking Vincent of Totaldac if he could deliver a d1-reclocker with L and R toslink outputs. Then I could use two Phantoms in "solo" (mono) mode and still have a proper stereo setup. The d1-reclocker has a very decent digital volume control, but Phantom defaults to 35% volume on power-on. I'd still need Spark to set the volume to something useful.
Vincent was very helpful and said he would consider providing a modified reclocker, but would not charge me in the event he could not make a good result. A modification would also imply changes to the code running in the FPGA. The price was very sensible IMHO.
In the end I decided not to go ahead with this setup. Bottom line is that Devialet makes this a difficult choice as there are too many 'ifs' and 'buts'.

[martinskeem]

Whats the problem with the dialog? Understand that Spark is not great (to be nice), but tucked away with the router and a Sonos / blusound / heos and fixed volume at 80 (volume controlled by source), i fail to see the inconvenience. Also, what is the alternative? Im not familiar with an alternative that requires no other box


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[ogs]

Dialog is not a problem apart from the fact that it runs hot, so it can't be tucked away, the USB input (or output) is not functional and generally Devialet does not keep it's promises on development. I own a 250 (upgraded from a D-Premier) so I am familiar with the last few years of Devialet history...
Alternative? I have described one possible route. It is a rather complex workaround for lack of logical functionality in Phantom. If Dialog was a flexible, complete and ready product I would not mind using it. Like a DLNA or Roon endpoint in addition to Devialet's own protocols. It should be easy to do, it is Linux based!

[bearcatsandor]

If Dialog was a flexible, complete and ready product I would not mind using it. Like a DLNA or Roon endpoint in addition to Devialet's own protocols. It should be easy to do, it is Linux based!

Not only does it run the Linux kernel (anyone know what version?), it's based around gstreamer of which i am a big fan. I wish they'd made it a little bit hackable. It would have been great to be able to construct my own gstreamer pipelines and include lv2 plugins for all sorts of dsp processing.

[sekriT]

If Dialog was a flexible, complete and ready product I would not mind using it. Like a DLNA or Roon endpoint in addition to Devialet's own protocols. It should be easy to do, it is Linux based!

Not only does it run the Linux kernel (anyone know what version?), it's based around gstreamer of which i am a big fan. I wish they'd made it a little bit hackable. It would have been great to be able to construct my own gstreamer pipelines and include lv2 plugins for all sorts of dsp processing.

If a Linux device has USB port and ethernet port with a network address, it should be easily hacked. Nobody tried it yet.