Why do you use an external streamer with an Expert Pro with CI?

[Delija]

The discussion started in another topic, but maybe it's not bad to have it in separate thread. For me - pretty interesting question.

So...

Basically, I'm a little confused with so much talk on the forum about external streamers. 

It's quite expected for older Experts - prior Pro and CI, of course, but what about Pro with CI?
What you don't like about internal streamer - e.g. UPnP and/or Roon?
Why do you need external streamer?

The point of Devialet architecture should be usage as all-in-one device, with one unique clock for all parts of the system, the shortest signal path, minimum possible jitter, etc...

I don't see what cheap external solutions could bring (I've tried some, of course) and higher class streamers are far from cheap and it's questionable whether it's reasonable to put them in the system with Devilalet.



I'm curious to hear other people opinions and experiences.

[daniel.avasilichioaei]

I do not use an external streamer and (for now) I do not see the benefits compared to Roon Core installed on an Intel NUC.
I am also curious to find out about and learn from the experience of those who use an external streamer.

[ogs]

My take on this is that an external streamer is the only way to have a Mutec (or other re-clocker) in the chain. The simplicity of Roon RAAT directly to the CI board inside an Expert amplifier is very tempting and does indeed sound excellent, but the MC-3 +USB is somewhat better than direct RAAT IMHO. I haven't heard the MC-3 +USB with the REF10 (or the new REF10-120). Reports from others ( like our own @Confused ) tells me that MC-3 +USB/REF10 is very high quality.

[Jean-Marie]

I don't use a streamer myself and since I stand on the side of those who consider that what is happening before de DAC of the Devialet is properly taking care by the Devialet itself unless it turns our to a drop (please note that I'm not trying to argue whether I'm right or wrong, I'm just disclosing my perception and bias) I will not offer anything with regard to sound quality.

However, there is another aspect that can be a reason to use a streamer: If you don't use one, you have to maintain a computer or a more complex UPnP setup. If you use a streamer, you don't have to deal with any of those and can rely on a dedicated piece of hardware and software that is made just for that and that you operate pretty much like you would operate a CD player and forget about computers.

My two cents.

Jean-Marie

[Delija]

Not every streamer has its own storage.
So, in most cases with an external streamer you still need to have a UPnP and/or Roon server.

Some, of course, also support USB storage - but I don't see a difference between maintaining a server or pure USB storage. Once setup - it's almost the same.

[docvale]

I don't use a streamer myself and since I stand on the side of those who consider that what is happening before de DAC of the Devialet is properly taking care by the Devialet itself unless it turns our to a drop (please note that I'm not trying to argue whether I'm right or wrong, I'm just disclosing my perception and bias) I will not offer anything with regard to sound quality.

However, there is another aspect that can be a reason to use a streamer: If you don't use one, you have to maintain a computer or a more complex UPnP setup. If you use a streamer, you don't have to deal with any of those and can rely on a dedicated piece of hardware and software that is made just for that and that you operate pretty much like you would operate a CD player and forget about computers.

My two cents.

Jean-Marie

I think you nailed it here.
If Devialet developed an app a la Naim app, its streamer section could be considered a streamer for good. If you need to buy Roon (or any other software interface) and have a computer or a complicated setup running, then the practicality of a different device stands out.
Instead, Devialet does not even update the implementation of their Air app for Mac... basically, it seems they give for granted that someone would use a hardware/software combination upstream.

[Delija]

Why would you need Devialet app - when there is a perfect 3rd party app - BubbleUPnP?

If you don't use local media library - you don't need anything else but BubbleUPnP Android application on your mobile phone or tablet. You can use it for both Tidal and Qobuz.

Also, using UPnP server is VERY far from complicated setup.

[docvale]

Indeed, we're not all made equal

I DO use a media library, which is my primary source of music together with my record collection. And, despite I'm "just" 41, I'm a bit clumsy when it comes to setup stuff, and I'd like simple solutions with decent interfaces.

My Expert does not do UPnP, so I'm speaking from a couple of steps behind other forum members. I use a Node 2i connected to my Expert via SPDIF coaxial. The Node does what I define with the "streamer" monicker: does not require an active computer to work as a server, connects to a network, finds the music in the network, has a OS with a fairly intuitive and pleasant interface, hosts the various online streaming platforms.

A Naim Nova, through the Naim app, does what my Node+Expert couple does. The only drawback of the Naim streamers is that you need an actual NAS to browse your library.

I think that Devialet, which marketed their products as all-in-one (streamer included) since the D-Premier, has pushed the term. Personally, it seems that they don't care too much about the Expert line anymore, since they stopped updating their Air app. Or maybe, they just assume everyone would use Roon.
By the way, I tried Roon (all via ethernet connections): I stopped using it before the end of my free trial, because of some drop out events (very annoying, never had an issue with my Node), zero sound quality difference over the Node and the necessity to keep a computer active.

[Delija]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

That's exactly what I'm curious to know - is the reason for external streamer related to practicality or the quality of the sound? Or maybe just a legacy - for Expert Pro CI owners who used to have older Expert versions.

[hardcore]

I use a rather complicated USB-to-AES converter setup from a PC to the Devialet. The practical reason is because I also use the Devialet for audio from the PC for home theater and games, and so I need a low latency input like USB or AES/SPDIF.

That being said, I have tested UPNP over WiFi from the PC to Devialet, and it sounds very good. In fact I would say that UPNP over WiFi sounds better than the AES input, if the AES source is not of very high quality.

When I first got the Devialet, I had an older USB-AES converter which didn't sound as good as UPNP over WiFi. I upgraded parts of my USB chain and eventually got a combination that sounds slightly better than UPNP over WiFi. But it's very close, and if I perform any tweaks to USB input chain or other inputs, I often compare the sound to the UPNP over WiFi as a benchmark.

From what I understand, the rationale here is that the clocks in the DAC (Devialet) are synced to the SPDIF/AES inputs if used, thus if you have a higher quality clock in the SPDIF/AES source, it could improve the sound.

If I didn't have the video/ PC real-time use case, I would use something like Roon or a UPNP server to stream over WiFi to the Devialet directly.

Also another note - I minimize the number of cables I connect to the Devialet, in order to avoid ground loops and noise carried from other devices. I use only the Optical input, AES input (it's transformer isolated), and WiFi for the network, and for the Master-Companion link I use RCA-XLR with the XLR ground pin disconnected. No Ethernet or RCA inputs used. RCA output used for the subwoofer is transformer isolated (Jensen ISO-MAX). And the power cables for Master and Companion connected to the same AC power outlet.

I find that minimizing external connections and avoiding ground loops makes the Devialet sound amazingly smooth, big, detailed and 3-dimensional.

Hence I think a minimalist setup with Devialet connected over WiFi only to a network source like Roon or UPNP is probably the most cost effective and best sounding setup. And perhaps optical input for TV / PC sound.