220 to 440 ROI

[ada]

And what Astra provides to address aging DAC or any other point of Expert in any case? The problem with Devialet architecture is DAC is the core of the amp, even if you feed it with an external DAC or DDC via AES still Devialet does one more DA coversion on the aging DAC

[ray1234]

Indeed - Devialet's Expert as a stand-alone is good value for its money. But in order to raise the listening experience several notches above with the Expert line, one has to address outside that one-box. And when you look at such a setup, costs keep piling up. Today - there're several integrated Amp options and also Pre/Power options that overtakes the aging Expert that was at one time "the king". And if I were to take Devialet's Astra pricing, other competitive products are a much better buy.

I don't think any users that has experienced the Expert series will ever buy the Astra, being screwed once is enough. Buying second hand is still good value for an Expert, but as many pointed out you need an external streaming part to make it perform to today's standard.

[ray1234]

And what Astra provides to address aging DAC or any other point of Expert in any case? The problem with Devialet architecture is DAC is the core of the amp, even if you feed it with an external DAC or DDC via AES still Devialet does one more DA coversion on the aging DAC

No problem if feed via AES as AES is digital already, there is no digital conversion for AES input.

[thumb5]

And what Astra provides to address aging DAC or any other point of Expert in any case? The problem with Devialet architecture is DAC is the core of the amp, even if you feed it with an external DAC or DDC via AES still Devialet does one more DA coversion on the aging DAC

No problem if feed via AES as AES is digital already, there is no digital conversion for AES input.

As a reminder: DAC is short for Digital to Analog Converter.  The DAC @ada refers to is in the heart of the Devialet's ADH core and is an integral part of the power amplifier through which all inputs eventually flow, so the DAC imposes the same limitations (if any) for AES as for any other input.  (Unless you're only using the pre-amp output of the Devialet and not the power amplifier.)

[ray1234]

As a reminder: DAC is short for Digital to Analog Converter.  The DAC @ada refers to is in the heart of the Devialet's ADH core and is an integral part of the power amplifier through which all inputs eventually flow, so the DAC imposes the same limitations (if any) for AES as for any other input.  (Unless you're only using the pre-amp output of the Devialet and not the power amplifier.)

Not quite sure what you mean. AES is the input from the streamer part, it is already digital and the digital signal will be converted to analog using the same Devialet ADH technology as if the signal is from the network connection into Devialet. There will be double conversion if signal is fed via RCA, because the analog signal will be converted to digital first, but for digital signal there is no need to convert.

[ada]

I think we are mixing a few concepts here:

1. DC (Analog to Digital Converter) is a concept that is not common for amplifiers. Devialet uses this because their patented ADH circuit works with digital input.
2. ADC flow is only used when there is an analog input in use. For AES, USB, ETHERNET, SPDIF, and Coax inputs, there is no usage of ADC.
3. When you use a streamer or DDC and feed Devialet via AES, the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) is still inside of Devialet. What you do is feed Devialet with a digital signal, which Devialet converts to analog to produce the sound signal that you listen to. At this stage, your streamer's DAC is not in use or functioning, and any clock that you put ahead of Devialet has no impact on the DAC operation Devialet performs.

All in all, there is no way to improve the DAC and Clock quality of Expert Pro, and it's the same DAC and Clock (as far as we are aware) inside of Astra. Basically, whichever way you feed Devialet digitally, you always get the same outcome. You can say that there are differences between USB vs. SPDIF vs. Ethernet vs. AES, and yes, the handshakes, medium and signal processing of the inputs are different and the jitter etc. will be different. However, the difference you hear has nothing to do with the DAC or clock; it is more related to how well your streamer/PC/device's output performs and produces less noise/jitter etc. with Devialet's specific input.

[ray1234]

I think we are mixing a few concepts here:

1. DC (Analog to Digital Converter) is a concept that is not common for amplifiers. Devialet uses this because their patented ADH circuit works with digital input.
2. ADC flow is only used when there is an analog input in use. For AES, USB, ETHERNET, SPDIF, and Coax inputs, there is no usage of ADC.
3. When you use a streamer or DDC and feed Devialet via AES, the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) is still inside of Devialet. What you do is feed Devialet with a digital signal, which Devialet converts to analog to produce the sound signal that you listen to. At this stage, your streamer's DAC is not in use or functioning, and any clock that you put ahead of Devialet has no impact on the DAC operation Devialet performs.

All in all, there is no way to improve the DAC and Clock quality of Expert Pro, and it's the same DAC and Clock (as far as we are aware) inside of Astra. Basically, whichever way you feed Devialet digitally, you always get the same outcome. You can say that there are differences between USB vs. SPDIF vs. Ethernet vs. AES, and yes, the handshakes, medium and signal processing of the inputs are different and the jitter etc. will be different. However, the difference you hear has nothing to do with the DAC or clock; it is more related to how well your streamer/PC/device's output performs and produces less noise/jitter etc. with Devialet's specific input.

I don't quite agree with your point 3, AES does pass on clock signals together with the audio data to the Devialet. Of course, I can't quantify how much the clock is improving the streamer signal and how much it is improving the DAC. In any case, with the help of the clock, the resolution of my D400 is up to the standard of modern DACs, I am talking DCS and MSB levels.

[ada]

Sorry to say but it is not a personal opinion, it is how it works but it is fair enough to think in that way.

[Delija]

There is much more in the sound quality than just resolution - which really is on very high level on Devialet.

[ray1234]

There is much more in the sound quality than just resolution - which really is on very high level on Devialet.

Absolutely, don't get me wrong when I say Devialet is up to the level of DCS and MSB, I am just referring to resolution, not as a whole. There is a reason why DCS and MSB is selling for much more expensive than Devialet.