real hype, phantom sound

[nugat]

"The best sound equipment in the world. Phantom replaces all existing systems ...unlike anything you have heard before...outperforms all existing systems...forever changes the world of sound..." etc etc. These are just some of the claims  made by the maker of Phantom on its web page. On top of that, quite a few reviews (e.g. "Wired") were more than enthusiastic.
I do not consider myself an audiophile. I am lucky though to be able to listen to my favourite music on a fairly good setup in a dedicated music  room in a separate cabin on the farm where we live.  The setup is Denon DCD-A100 CD/DAC, AirTight AM201 tube amp, Dali Grand speakers and a custom made preamp/sound processor, which is similar to the Devialete SAM, at least in concept.  I purchased those as separate components  second hand -- for a similar total amount as two new Phantoms cost. 
Based on all the hype I almost ordered online two Phantoms for our living room where Family Acceptance Factor rules high. Luckily, soon I was visiting the town with my musical buddy, where an audio dealer had Phantoms on demo. I prearranged the visit and downloaded the Spark app onto my iPhone, where most of my favourite music resides as AAC or ALAC files. Just in case I took with me several CDs including the Chesky Records Ultimate Demonstration Disc. That was prudent, as it turned out that Phantom/Dialog cannot play iTunes files directly. I would need to reload them directly to Spark via computer--or so the dealer said. Bummer. Our idea of music in the family room is that all family members and guests can play their choices from smartphones' libraries or Spotify or Tidal. Easily done by  my daughter's little NAD 7050D and many other devices nowadays. 
So for the test purposes we used my CDs played out from the dealer's  transport connected by Toslink.

CAVEAT. Below is presented a fully subjective opinion based on the notion of perceiving music as an  emotional rather than physical phenomenon.

Me and my buddy went through most of the Chesky disc and then some more pop, rock and even heavy bass pieces.
Disappointment is an understatement to describe what we increasingly felt with every track. We know the tracks very well and know how they sound in my  country cabin.
It was  classes difference in favour of my old tube amp and old Dali Grand speakers. The Phantom sound by comparison is a poor, failed attempt to approach a live musical experience. The Phantom sound is..."plasticky", lacking palpability, missing emotion, and  it really started getting on our nerves after half an hour. We listened to Phantoms at 70+ volumes, and for some pieces I asked the volume to be pumped up more. The sound became really loud, but not any better. On the other hand, volumes below 70  put the Phantom at par with many other possible setups costing less. The dealer seeing our disappointment tried to save the day by defending  the Phantom with marketspeak he apparently learned at the manufacturer's sales training. "Phantom is best when playing as a single source" (we did not try it). "It is a new way of music delivery, for the internet generation" (we are 50+ but use internet a lot...).  "It is better than competition" (pointing to a device half the price). In the end I tried to help him out hinting at possible 
home theatre applications. "O no, no home theatre in the near future. A new central processor with HDMIs has to be built from scratch". And he was probably right on this one. 
And I was really glad about the trip and the revealing demo session.

[EvPa]

That was prudent, as it turned out that Phantom/Dialog cannot play iTunes files directly. I would need to reload them directly to Spark via computer--or so the dealer said. Bummer. Our idea of music in the family room is that all family members and guests can play their choices from smartphones' libraries or Spotify or Tidal.

Spark should have been able to play your phone's music library (as you mention ALAC files and iTunes I guess that it is some sort of iPhone but it's the same on Android phones), maybe the phone was not selected as an input?

[f1eng]

Well there is no doubt that hifi enthusiasts' idea of what sounds good varies substantially.

The HiFi Wigwam Scalford show, which I consider to be the highlight of the hifi year since no trade exhibitions are allowed, has dozens of systems set up by enthusiasts to show what they like. Whilst some are not done justice by the rooms the one thing which stands out is how very, very different the various systems sound, but that every one of them sounds better than all the others to somebody.
It is why a home demonstration is absolutely essential before buying anything IME.

Your dealer was wrong btw, Spark plays all the files on my iPhone directly no problem, only having to be connected to the correct network.

[fgueho]

In the end I tried to help him out hinting at possible home theatre applications. "O no, no home theatre in the near future. A new central processor with HDMIs has to be built from scratch". And he was probably right on this one.

Really?

[stonedragon]

"The best sound equipment in the world. Phantom replaces all existing systems ...unlike anything you have heard before...outperforms all existing systems...forever changes the world of sound..." etc etc. These are just some of the claims  made by the maker of Phantom on its web page. On top of that, quite a few reviews (e.g. "Wired") were more than enthusiastic.
I do not consider myself an audiophile. I am lucky though to be able to listen to my favourite music on a fairly good setup in a dedicated music  room in a separate cabin on the farm where we live.  The setup is Denon DCD-A100 CD/DAC, AirTight AM201 tube amp, Dali Grand speakers and a custom made preamp/sound processor, which is similar to the Devialete SAM, at least in concept.  I purchased those as separate components  second hand -- for a similar total amount as two new Phantoms cost. 
Based on all the hype I almost ordered online two Phantoms for our living room where Family Acceptance Factor rules high. Luckily, soon I was visiting the town with my musical buddy, where an audio dealer had Phantoms on demo. I prearranged the visit and downloaded the Spark app onto my iPhone, where most of my favourite music resides as AAC or ALAC files. Just in case I took with me several CDs including the Chesky Records Ultimate Demonstration Disc. That was prudent, as it turned out that Phantom/Dialog cannot play iTunes files directly. I would need to reload them directly to Spark via computer--or so the dealer said. Bummer. Our idea of music in the family room is that all family members and guests can play their choices from smartphones' libraries or Spotify or Tidal. Easily done by  my daughter's little NAD 3050D and many other devices nowadays. 
So for the test purposes we used my CDs played out from the dealer's  transport connected by Toslink.

CAVEAT. Below is presented a fully subjective opinion based on the notion of perceiving music as an  emotional rather than physical phenomenon.

Me and my buddy went through most of the Chesky disc and then some more pop, rock and even heavy bass pieces.
Disappointment is an understatement to describe what we increasingly felt with every track. We know the tracks very well and know how they sound in my  country cabin.
It was  classes difference in favour of my old tube amp and old Dali Grand speakers. The Phantom sound by comparison is a poor, failed attempt to approach a live musical experience. The Phantom sound is..."plasticky", lacking palpability, missing emotion, and  it really started getting on our nerves after half an hour. We listened to Phantoms at 70+ volumes, and for some pieces I asked the volume to be pumped up more. The sound became really loud, but not any better. On the other hand, volumes below 70  put the Phantom at par with many other possible setups costing less. The dealer seeing our disappointment tried to save the day by defending  the Phantom with marketspeak he apparently learned at the manufacturer's sales training. "Phantom is best when playing as a single source" (we did not try it). "It is a new way of music delivery, for the internet generation" (we are 50+ but use internet a lot...).  "It is better than competition" (pointing to a device half the price). In the end I tried to help him out hinting at possible 
home theatre applications. "O no, no home theatre in the near future. A new central processor with HDMIs has to be built from scratch". And he was probably right on this one. 
And I was really glad about the trip and the revealing demo session.

I'm lost for words.

[mixart]

So you are saying that it is impossible to get surround with the current Phantom speaker or is it only the Dialog, that has to be replaced with an upgrade HDMI?

[MountainGuy]

Its amazing to me how wildly different consumer reviews are on this, ranging from enthusiasm where Phantoms replaced systems multiples its cost to this review where Phantoms are really poor speakers. While there is personal taste involved, it is difficult to reconcile the chasm between the two extremes.

I do appreciate all the reviews.

I do wonder how your dealer set up the Phantoms. Were they on stands? Tables? Away from the walls? Right up by the walls? etc.

Thanks,
MtnGuy

[midi]

Its amazing to me how wildly different consumer reviews are on this, ranging from enthusiasm where Phantoms replaced systems multiples its cost to this review where Phantoms are really poor speakers.  While there is personal taste involved, it is difficult to reconcile the chasm between the two extremes.  

I do appreciate all the reviews.

I do wonder how your dealer set up the Phantoms.  Were they on stands?  Tables?  Away from the walls?  Right up by the walls?  etc.

Thanks,
MtnGuy

I have compared the systems D120/Atoms vs. Phantoms under the same conditions. Same place, same volumes, same streaming quality, with direct changing. The only difference was AIR for the Expert and the Dialog for the Phantoms with Spark. I think fair conditions for both systems. By the way, I have no possibility to go 1m or more away from the wall, only to get the right sound...

[nugat]

So you are saying that it is impossible to get surround with the current Phantom speaker or is it only the Dialog, that has to be replaced with an upgrade HDMI?

I read elsewhere on this forum that the audio delay on Phantoms is 0.2 sec or 5 video frames. To resynchronize picture with sound, video must get delayed
in a processor by equal amount.

[nugat]

Its amazing to me how wildly different consumer reviews are on this, ranging from enthusiasm where Phantoms replaced systems multiples its cost to this review where Phantoms are really poor speakers.  While there is personal taste involved, it is difficult to reconcile the chasm between the two extremes.  

I do appreciate all the reviews.

I do wonder how your dealer set up the Phantoms.  Were they on stands?  Tables?  Away from the walls?  Right up by the walls?  etc.

Thanks,
MtnGuy

I think Phantoms  are simply and unneccessarily overhyped. They are "poor" in comparison to big traditional speakers like Dali Grand which are  three-way, 5-driver big boxes, especially when powered with great amps like Air Tight (BTW 2x22w !). Yet better than existing speaker docks/wireless systems, or entry and maybe even mid-level sets. But also pricier. Inspite of what Devialet would like us to believe, they did not break any laws o physics. They vastly improved the engineering though. Some people  still prefer big V8 to small turbos. 
The dealer put them on some stands and away from the walls.