Devialet Chat

(22-Apr-2017, 17:45)Bruno Wrote: [ -> ]I must be lured by some self persuasion factor, but this new firmware impresses me a lot.
Sam is off as usual. If I am the only one to hear a difference, please forward my post to some sci-fi thread.

I can confirm that there are sonic differences compared to previous software. From what I experience, the sound is a bit more tuneful and more "analog" in its character. All in a good fashion!

BR Björn






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(24-Apr-2017, 21:54)yabaVR Wrote: [ -> ]

(24-Apr-2017, 21:32)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]gui - I am sure we will never know!  But it is nice to speculate that they do have a few fine minds in Devialet that know how to optimise for sound quality improvements, it's actually highly probable I would have thought.  There is certainly plenty of opinion based evidence in the past to suggest that firmware changes impacted sound quality.  (the debate of 7.1.3 vs FW 8 & 9 will almost certainly never be resolved, but nobody ever advised they preferred 6 as far as I can recall, although some claimed no difference)  As for me, I have my don't change two things at once rule.  Because I have just installed an Aqvox switch, all this new firmware goodness will need to wait a couple of weeks at least, but never mind, it's always good to have something to look forward to!

The Aqvox may need weeks to burn in finally. But you can do the firmware update right now, because you will notice the difference at once (and it's much bigger than the diff with the Aqvox I bet).
No need for A/B or wondering if your imagination just made it up. Just taste the honey now...don't know what next week will bring  .

gui

p.s. ...and here's one more. You'll be able to distinguish the diff between your standard switch/router and the Aqvox more precisely because of the increase of transparency with the 10.1.0 

gui - Your enthusiasm is remarkable, but no no, I shall not break my golden rule of changing one thing at a time!  Consider, I am enjoying some casual listening over the next few days and I notice something new, maybe good, maybe bad.  Is it the new switch, or is it the new firmware?  This could be confusing!  Of course, I could take your word that 10.1.0 is simply more transparent, but we do have different systems.  As one example, I feed my Devialet via AES/EBU, you use USB.  None of know what the new firmware is doing, or where it is doing it.  it is unlikely, but not entirely impossible, that the choice of input is significant.  In addition, I'm running an unmodified dual mono Pro, not a modified Expert.  Plus I have much patience and resolve, and enjoy having something to look forward to. 

(25-Apr-2017, 13:53)Cylob Wrote: [ -> ]Crystal clear and all the life and warmth is gone. Same deal as with the last few firmwares.
Fatigue within a few minutes playing some edgy tracks that I tolerate with fw 7.1.3.
Back to 7.1.3!!

I agree. I really like 7.1.3 but use 8.1 so I can use SAM which has clear benefits in my system.  I have tried all the subsequent FW releases and find them too bright with over-emphasised treble which increases the sense of airiness and apparent detail but makes recording hiss intrusive and increases listening fatigue. I also find the later releases less warm.

Seems like FW preferences are still system-dependent, which I don't find particularly surprising.

EDIT: @Cyclob. Perhaps we hear the same things because we both use AIR

Also, my comments relate to comparing 10.1.0 to much earlier FW versions not to the last version which most of the posts in this thread seem to be referring to.

Having lived with 10.1.0 for a few days I consider it to be a significant upgrade in my system. There is added clarity, presence, texture and warmth, I really love this upgrade, and it's free!

(25-Apr-2017, 16:33)yabaVR Wrote: [ -> ]

(25-Apr-2017, 13:53)Cylob Wrote: [ -> ]Crystal clear and all the life and warmth is gone. Same deal as with the last few firmwares.
Fatigue within a few minutes playing some edgy tracks that I tolerate with fw 7.1.3.
Back to 7.1.3!!

Do you stream from a dedicated audio pc or is it also your working machine?

There's to be some cause for your fatigue that is not firmware related, because here are some guys having highly transparent/resolving systems and I can say at least for my system that 10.1.0 gives me the extrem opposite of what you're experiencing...performs very live and natural...pulls me right into the music and prevents me from zapping through my library. If I can be of any help you're welcome.

gui

+1

F

(25-Apr-2017, 21:48)PhilP Wrote: [ -> ]

(25-Apr-2017, 13:53)Cylob Wrote: [ -> ]Crystal clear and all the life and warmth is gone. Same deal as with the last few firmwares.
Fatigue within a few minutes playing some edgy tracks that I tolerate with fw 7.1.3.
Back to 7.1.3!!

I agree. I really like 7.1.3 but use 8.1 so I can use SAM which has clear benefits in my system.  I have tried all the subsequent FW releases and find them too bright with over-emphasised treble which increases the sense of airiness and apparent detail but makes recording hiss intrusive and increases listening fatigue. I also find the later releases less warm.

Seems like FW preferences are still system-dependent, which I don't find particularly surprising.

Hey Philip,
the recording hiss you mentioned actually is (in most cases of good recordings) out of phase audio signal informations (or simply put jitter) induced into the audio signal at some section of your system. I read in your signature that you are streaming from a MacBook. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with tuning software for Apple but what I can say about my journey on the PC side is that I was unhappy to stream from a PC until I tried some special tuning software like 'Audiophile Optimizer', 'jPlay' and the like to cut down all unnessesary processes that're running in the background of the OS. This, and only this, lowered the jitter of my PC as my source to a minimum level so that it is now pure bliss for me to listen to it.

Beforehand I couldn't get rid of the underlying digital sound pattern in the music and it's my thinking that you're hearing this digital sound pattern originating from your MacBook to a larger extension with the newer firmware versions. I also read somewhere that Apple OS have even more processes/services running in background than Windows...so that could make sense.
Downside to intensively tuning the PC is that it's now solely dedicated to audio, but if I look at it like a CD-Player it is a bargain for an audio source. If you can ever make it to get hands on a highly tuned audio PC it could be worth to install AIR on it and give it a try in your system.

I can say from my tuning experience that it is not more brightness or over-emphasised treble the new firmware produces rather than very high resolution of details and this results in more 'audio informations/time frame' that is then messed up by jitter patterns leading to more hiss and digital sounding. Increased Resolution of the signal is, in my thinking, nothing more than just more micro details that now come thru that were blocked on the signal path before. More signal informations equals more energy coming thru equals more level (higher dynamics) on particular frequencies/time frame equals hiss and over-emphasise when impured with jitter. Just my 2cents.

gui

(25-Apr-2017, 22:55)yabaVR Wrote: [ -> ]

(25-Apr-2017, 21:48)PhilP Wrote: [ -> ]

(25-Apr-2017, 13:53)Cylob Wrote: [ -> ]Crystal clear and all the life and warmth is gone. Same deal as with the last few firmwares.
Fatigue within a few minutes playing some edgy tracks that I tolerate with fw 7.1.3.
Back to 7.1.3!!

I agree. I really like 7.1.3 but use 8.1 so I can use SAM which has clear benefits in my system.  I have tried all the subsequent FW releases and find them too bright with over-emphasised treble which increases the sense of airiness and apparent detail but makes recording hiss intrusive and increases listening fatigue. I also find the later releases less warm.

Seems like FW preferences are still system-dependent, which I don't find particularly surprising.

Hey Philip,
the recording hiss you mentioned actually is (in most cases of good recordings) out of phase audio signal informations (or simply put jitter) induced into the audio signal at some section of your system. I read in your signature that you are streaming from a MacBook. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with tuning software for Apple but what I can say about my journey on the PC side is that I was unhappy to stream from a PC until I tried some special tuning software like 'Audiophile Optimizer', 'jPlay' and the like to cut down all unnessesary processes that're running in the background of the OS. This, and only this, lowered the jitter of my PC as my source to a minimum level so that it is now pure bliss for me to listen to it.

Beforehand I couldn't get rid of the underlying digital sound pattern in the music and it's my thinking that you're hearing this digital sound pattern originating from your MacBook to a larger extension with the newer firmware versions. I also read somewhere that Apple OS have even more processes/services running in background than Windows...so that could make sense.
Downside to intensively tuning the PC is that it's now solely dedicated to audio, but if I look at it like a CD-Player it is a bargain for an audio source. If you can ever make it to get hands on a highly tuned audio PC it could be worth to install AIR on it and give it a try in your system.

I can say from my tuning experience that it is not more brightness or over-emphasised treble the new firmware produces rather than very high resolution of details and this results in more 'audio informations/time frame' that is then messed up by jitter patterns leading to more hiss and digital sounding. Increased Resolution of the signal is, in my thinking, nothing more than just more micro details that now come thru that were blocked on the signal path before. More signal informations equals more energy coming thru equals more level (higher dynamics) on particular frequencies/time frame equals hiss and over-emphasise when impured with jitter. Just my 2cents.

gui

Hi gui,

thanks for taking time to write your detailed post. I will certainly think about what you say. Worth more than 2 cents!

It's difficult to provide all background info in posts but my signal path is quite simple: MacBook Pro/Audirvana+/AIR > wireless router > D200

The 'hiss' I mentioned only appears on old recordings where it was probably tape-derived or some modern recordings where its been added to make the recordings sound more like vinyl ?!   The hiss is there with earlier versions of the FW but is increased with later versions - 8.1.3 onwards. Plus cymbals are emphasised.

My understanding is that computer clock jitter shouldn't be an issue in TCP/IP based transfer (as the signal is re-clocked in the router and again in the D200) and the issues that need attention are minimising common mode noise and RFI interference. As I'm running wireless connections common mode noise isn't an issue and there's not much I can do about RFI other than make sure I have a strong wireless signal - which I do.  If any of this is wrong please let me know!  

[EDIT: now you might well be correct that increased resolution has highlighted a problem elsewhere in the system - the one area I haven't looked at recently is the quality of the mains power feed. It's maybe time to experiment in that area.]

Sadly, I seem to have a more pressing problem as AIR 3.0.4 has just stuttered and replay stopped. This has only happened since upgrading to OS X 10.12.4 yesterday... AIR/Audirvana+ has always worked perfectly for me so far in all previous versions.

Thanks again,

Philip

If anyone's interested in comparing differences between, say, 7.1.3 or 8.1 and 10.1.0 then try.

Ane Brun - 'Halo' from the album 'Rareties'

Sorry, 'Pro' owners can't use the older FW versions...

A few hours since the upgrade and I do agree with comments so far, there is a slight improvement, particularly in bass definition, but also sound appears more unhurried, natural. Hard to say what a few lines of code can do (!), more buffering, better USB isolation, who knows, but a worth while upgrade.

Hi,
Almost 30 mn since upgraded firmware 10.1.0. I was surprised i had the 10.0.2 though,cause i wasn t using my system during last 3 months waiting for my speakers arrival, but agree with posts above, music is flowing easier, can t explain it precisely, could be less noise ,jitter or something. More air also, bass is kind of better defined.
Honestly devialet is the best! Very happy!


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