26-Apr-2017, 20:02
(26-Apr-2017, 17:37)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ]This had perhaps be moved to another thread, because it is heading way off topic, but...
(26-Apr-2017, 17:08)yabaVR Wrote: [ -> ]First thump5 is right. Jitter is present on every signal path in a computer but the 'normal' programs don't care because they have a protocol to check if every bit that was sent was also received. Nothing is lost but sometimes the programs have to wait until another process/service that interferes with higher priority got its job done. In this scenario some bits/bytes may be delivered later/ealier than it was meant to be. But they just fit in as time is not important.
Hold on a moment: I didn't say anything like that. In fact I disagree with almost everything you said there. In particular, time is of vital importance for all digital electronics to work properly - just take a look at the specification of an SDRAM (computer memory) device, for example. That's why I asked you to explain exactly what /you/ meant by jitter.
(26-Apr-2017, 17:08)yabaVR Wrote: [ -> ]On the other hand time is one of the most important things when an audio signal is sent. It has to be a continuous stream. If some bits/bytes come before/after they were meant to arrive the 'tone (or part of it)' is extended over time. We recognise this as distortion/hiss/boomy sound...the tone is stretched...the 'S' in a singers voice becomes a 'SSSS' that's the hiss.
Are you saying that distortion, hiss, boomy sound and sibilance are all caused by timing errors?
(26-Apr-2017, 17:08)yabaVR Wrote: [ -> ]My understanding of AIR is that everything that reaches the AIR-Driver (the front door of AIR) is afterwards sorted and send jitterfree/timecorrect through every signalpath of the computer and the network until it reaches the front door of the Dxxx. Then it is converted back into a stream without a time correcting protocol and therefor is prone to jitter again.
The problem as I see it is the signal path from the HDD/SSD up to the front door of AIR. I don't think there is a jitterfree time dependent protocol that holds jitter off this signalpath. But once this jitter contaminated signal passes the front door of AIR the AIR-software takes it as an original signal. The induced jitter can not be seen by AIR.
I don't see why or how you draw a distinction between what happens "in front of" or "within" AIR: it's all computer hardware and software, it all works in the digital domain, and it is all either bit perfect or not. As Confused said rather concisely, the audio samples can arrive at the Devialet more or less any time relative to each other so long as they are in the correct order and not missing, both of which errors can be detected, and the Devialet will re-clock them synchronously to it's own internal clock. So no inter-sample time variation before the re-clocking should make a difference to the output from the amplifier.
So I misinterpreted one line of your post...sorry
.If I sum up your comments is it right that you say there is no such thing as jitter in the audio chain from a computer to a Devialet or DAC espacially if we use AIR (over ETH)? Right?
I get the feeling you want to get me wrong and did not read my post depending on AIR. I didn't say it is AIR who is the culprit here when we're talking about jitter. It's (mostly) the rest surrounding AIR in the digital chain that is causing jitter. One question, if you open any program does it always need the same time to start? If you open a jpeg from your HDD does it always take the same amount of time? Depends on what your OS is doing at the moment doesn't it? There might be a delay. This is crucial for a stream.
And if it was not why is it that tuning software as 'Audiophile Optimizer' 'jPlay' 'Process Lasso' 'Fidelizer' and the like lead to fantastic better sound when they are installed? I'm no software engineer nor a chip designer I'm only thinking out loud because there's to be a reason why we are hearing differences within firmwares (ah, got the topic here
), computers and tuning softwares. Many here on the forum are speaking about different AIR versions are sounding very different. Why is that when AIR does everything right and is bitperfect by design?If you say that jitter doesn't exist in a digital computer audio chain why is it that all the different computers using the same AIR have a different sound? Or are you saying this is not the case? Then we can stop the discussion here
.edit:
Yes, not ALL but a lot of hiss, boomy sound and sibilance are caused by digital and analog timing errors. That's exactly what it is and what I'm experiencing when I'm tuning room (analog), computers (digital), cases of devices (analog), cables (analog/digital) etc. You might only think in terms of resistance, impedance and capacity. But all this leads to different influences onto different frequencies leading to...timing errors.
gui
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