New Firmware 10.1.0

[yabaVR]

I agree. I really like 7.1.3 but use 8.1 so I can use SAM which has clear benefits in my system.  I have tried all the subsequent FW releases and find them too bright with over-emphasised treble which increases the sense of airiness and apparent detail but makes recording hiss intrusive and increases listening fatigue. I also find the later releases less warm.

Seems like FW preferences are still system-dependent, which I don't find particularly surprising.

Hey Philip,
the recording hiss you mentioned actually is (in most cases of good recordings) out of phase audio signal informations (or simply put jitter) induced into the audio signal at some section of your system. I read in your signature that you are streaming from a MacBook. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with tuning software for Apple but what I can say about my journey on the PC side is that I was unhappy to stream from a PC until I tried some special tuning software like 'Audiophile Optimizer', 'jPlay' and the like to cut down all unnessesary processes that're running in the background of the OS. This, and only this, lowered the jitter of my PC as my source to a minimum level so that it is now pure bliss for me to listen to it.

Beforehand I couldn't get rid of the underlying digital sound pattern in the music and it's my thinking that you're hearing this digital sound pattern originating from your MacBook to a larger extension with the newer firmware versions. I also read somewhere that Apple OS have even more processes/services running in background than Windows...so that could make sense.
Downside to intensively tuning the PC is that it's now solely dedicated to audio, but if I look at it like a CD-Player it is a bargain for an audio source. If you can ever make it to get hands on a highly tuned audio PC it could be worth to install AIR on it and give it a try in your system.

I can say from my tuning experience that it is not more brightness or over-emphasised treble the new firmware produces rather than very high resolution of details and this results in more 'audio informations/time frame' that is then messed up by jitter patterns leading to more hiss and digital sounding. Increased Resolution of the signal is, in my thinking, nothing more than just more micro details that now come thru that were blocked on the signal path before. More signal informations equals more energy coming thru equals more level (higher dynamics) on particular frequencies/time frame equals hiss and over-emphasise when impured with jitter. Just my 2cents.

gui

Hi gui,

thanks for taking time to write your detailed post. I will certainly think about what you say. Worth more than 2 cents!

It's difficult to provide all background info in posts but my signal path is quite simple: MacBook Pro/Audirvana+/AIR > wireless router > D200

The 'hiss' I mentioned only appears on old recordings where it was probably tape-derived or some modern recordings where its been added to make the recordings sound more like vinyl ?!   The hiss is there with earlier versions of the FW but is increased with later versions - 8.1.3 onwards. Plus cymbals are emphasised.

My understanding is that computer clock jitter shouldn't be an issue in TCP/IP based transfer (as the signal is re-clocked in the router and again in the D200) and the issues that need attention are minimising common mode noise and RFI interference. As I'm running wireless connections common mode noise isn't an issue and there's not much I can do about RFI other than make sure I have a strong wireless signal - which I do.  If any of this is wrong please let me know!  

[EDIT: now you might well be correct that increased resolution has highlighted a problem elsewhere in the system - the one area I haven't looked at recently is the quality of the mains power feed. It's maybe time to experiment in that area.]

Sadly, I seem to have a more pressing problem as AIR 3.0.4 has just stuttered and replay stopped. This has only happened since upgrading to OS X 10.12.4 yesterday... AIR/Audirvana+ has always worked perfectly for me so far in all previous versions.

Thanks again,

Philip

Hey Philip,
I was referring to my PC and the problem that I came about was not only the signal transfer to my D200 (USB-Cable has a BIG sound impact, yes) but rather the process of reading the audio data from disk/SSD transferring it to the Soft-Player, then transferring it to AIR (in my case to USB-Port) and AIR getting it to D200 over TCP/IP.

Up from the data output of the disk/SSD the data can be compromised by jitter...and it is. The more processes/services are running in background of the OS and the more devices are running like fans/HDDs/DVD-CD-RW or else the more you have bad EMF and Power Contamination inside your PC/MAC that induce jitter to the audio signal. AIR over TCP/IP is then transmitting this already jitter impured audio signal bitperfect to the D200...but it's already corrupted with jitter before that.

The next problem here is that all PCs/MACs/Laptops are differently configured. There is no reference base to start from until you dedicate your computer to audio and strip the OS down to a minimum. Then there seems to be consensus between people doing this. There are still differences though because you can use some renderer or a 2PC constellation and more but you will have a source you can highly depend on is not sounding digital harsh or the like anymore. Up from there improvements are in the area of 3D mapping, realism, naturalness and for sure it will get smoother too but not to the amount that you couldn't enjoy it before and have to switch to a former firmware to compensate.

edit: There is one thing you can have a look at. It's the SMPS (power supplies of your mobile, LED/Halogen lamps, turntabel and any electric device) in your audio room. Especially those stickin in the power strip of your audio system. They are contaminating the power line and have a big impact on sound (Devialets get mad on these). If you are curious about the effect pull them all out at once and listen to your music again.

gui

[Confused]

For the record. Devialet AIR buffers data and re-clocks in the amplifier itself. This will eliminate any jitter, as far as the Devialet's clock accuracy will allow. Consider, you can set the AIR buffer to 5 seconds, play music, remove the Ethernet cable from the Devialet and the Devialet will continue playing music for 5 seconds.

[thumb5]

gui, for this (off-topic) conversation to make any sense (to me) I think you need to explain exactly what /you/ mean by "jitter" in a digital signal, and exactly what mechanisms can cause this to occur and be transmitted through a digital chain. For this to be meaningful it must apply to any digital signal, not just bits that happen to represent an audio signal.

[octaviars]

I think that some guy or girl at Devialet got a little to much questions regarding the streamerboard or perhaps checked in here and were a bit worried that we are a bit angry. So this person goes to the developers and tells them "hey lets put togheter a new firmware that we call 10.1.0 so they get something else on their mind, we dont tell them what have changed and then we send in a mole on Devialet Chat and he tells them that he can here a diffrence between this firmaware and the old one (of course it is sounding better) so we get a bit more time to figure this streamerboard thinghi out that we are supposed to realese this year"

This is pure ironi (I write it here so no one goes bananas over my comment)

Activity on the forum is low....Devialet realeases a firmware or a email regarding their upgrade is ending or well not ending or it will now but no wiat perhaps it is opened again in the fall/winter ...... kaboom forum is full of new activity

[Bruno]

I think that some guy or girl at Devialet got a little to much questions regarding the streamerboard or perhaps checked in here and were a bit worried that we are a bit angry. So this person goes to the developers and tells them "hey lets put togheter a new firmware that we call 10.1.0 so they get something else on their mind, we dont tell them what have changed and then we send in a mole on Devialet Chat and he tells them that he can here a diffrence between this firmaware and the old one (of course it is sounding better) so we get a bit more time to figure this streamerboard thinghi out that we are supposed to realese this year"

This is pure ironi (I write it here so no one goes bananas over my comment)

Activity on the forum is low....Devialet realeases a firmware or a email regarding their upgrade is ending or well not ending or it will now but no wiat perhaps it is opened again in the fall/winter ...... kaboom forum is full of new activity

Walking the fine line between irony and provocation...
As far as I know a mole would indeed be able to tell the SQ difference between 2 FW much better than anyone here on this forum but couldn't see the irony !
Just kidding : I couldn't resist

[octaviars]

I think that some guy or girl at Devialet got a little to much questions regarding the streamerboard or perhaps checked in here and were a bit worried that we are a bit angry. So this person goes to the developers and tells them "hey lets put togheter a new firmware that we call 10.1.0 so they get something else on their mind, we dont tell them what have changed and then we send in a "mole" on Devialet Chat and he tells them that he can here a diffrence between this firmaware and the old one (of course it is sounding better) so we get a bit more time to figure this streamerboard thinghi out that we are supposed to realese this year"

This is pure ironi (I write it here so no one goes bananas over my comment)

Activity on the forum is low....Devialet realeases a firmware or a email regarding their upgrade is ending or well not ending or it will now but no wiat perhaps it is opened again in the fall/winter ...... kaboom forum is full of new activity

Walking the fine line between irony and provocation...
As far as I know a mole would indeed be able to tell the SQ difference between 2 FW much better than anyone here on this forum but couldn't see the irony !
Just kidding : I couldn't resist

 Well played my friend about the mole.....Touche

Perhaps it is a secret undercover Devialet worker that lures around Devialet chat spreding the word about how great the new firmware is

[Waiski]

https://youtu.be/awD1gtpdWIA

[yabaVR]

For the record.  Devialet AIR buffers data and re-clocks in the amplifier itself. This will eliminate any jitter, as far as the Devialet's clock accuracy will allow.  Consider, you can set the AIR buffer to 5 seconds, play music, remove the Ethernet cable from the Devialet and the Devialet will continue playing music for 5 seconds.

Ok, I'll try to explain jitter in a computer and audio chain to my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.

First thump5 is right. Jitter is present on every signal path in a computer but the 'normal' programs don't care because they have a protocol to check if every bit that was sent was also received. Nothing is lost but sometimes the programs have to wait until another process/service that interferes with higher priority got its job done. In this scenario some bits/bytes may be delivered later/ealier than it was meant to be. But they just fit in as time is not important.

On the other hand time is one of the most important things when an audio signal is sent. It has to be a continuous stream. If some bits/bytes come before/after they were meant to arrive the 'tone (or part of it)' is extended over time. We recognise this as distortion/hiss/boomy sound...the tone is stretched...the 'S' in a singers voice becomes a 'SSSS' that's the hiss.

My understanding of AIR is that everything that reaches the AIR-Driver (the front door of AIR) is afterwards sorted and send jitterfree/timecorrect through every signalpath of the computer and the network until it reaches the front door of the Dxxx. Then it is converted back into a stream without a time correcting protocol and therefor is prone to jitter again.
The problem as I see it is the signal path from the HDD/SSD up to the front door of AIR. I don't think there is a jitterfree time dependent protocol that holds jitter off this signalpath. But once this jitter contaminated signal passes the front door of AIR the AIR-software takes it as an original signal. The induced jitter can not be seen by AIR.
This is the same with jitter contaminated recordings. Once you have the jitter on CD or in the file you have to live with it. You can't calculate or filter it out of the signal after the recording is done.

I think it's difficult to imagine the flood of bits/bytes all have to be in a correct time dependent order because it's so much data. Though our brain is very sensitive on the timeline when it comes to sounds. This may be related to our instincts to survive in ancient history...what was the topic of the thread again   .

gui

[thumb5]

This had perhaps be moved to another thread, because it is heading way off topic, but...

First thump5 is right. Jitter is present on every signal path in a computer but the 'normal' programs don't care because they have a protocol to check if every bit that was sent was also received. Nothing is lost but sometimes the programs have to wait until another process/service that interferes with higher priority got its job done. In this scenario some bits/bytes may be delivered later/ealier than it was meant to be. But they just fit in as time is not important.

Hold on a moment: I didn't say anything like that.  In fact I disagree with almost everything you said there.  In particular, time is of vital importance for all digital electronics to work properly - just take a look at the specification of an SDRAM (computer memory) device, for example.  That's why I asked you to explain exactly what /you/ meant by jitter.

On the other hand time is one of the most important things when an audio signal is sent. It has to be a continuous stream. If some bits/bytes come before/after they were meant to arrive the 'tone (or part of it)' is extended over time. We recognise this as distortion/hiss/boomy sound...the tone is stretched...the 'S' in a singers voice becomes a 'SSSS' that's the hiss.

Are you saying that distortion, hiss, boomy sound and sibilance are all caused by timing errors?

My understanding of AIR is that everything that reaches the AIR-Driver (the front door of AIR) is afterwards sorted and send jitterfree/timecorrect through every signalpath of the computer and the network until it reaches the front door of the Dxxx. Then it is converted back into a stream without a time correcting protocol and therefor is prone to jitter again.
The problem as I see it is the signal path from the HDD/SSD up to the front door of AIR. I don't think there is a jitterfree time dependent protocol that holds jitter off this signalpath. But once this jitter contaminated signal passes the front door of AIR the AIR-software takes it as an original signal. The induced jitter can not be seen by AIR.

I don't see why or how you draw a distinction between what happens "in front of" or "within" AIR: it's all computer hardware and software, it all works in the digital domain, and it is all either bit perfect or not.  As Confused said rather concisely, the audio samples can arrive at the Devialet more or less any time relative to each other so long as they are in the correct order and not missing, both of which errors can be detected, and the Devialet will re-clock them synchronously to it's own internal clock.  So no inter-sample time variation before the re-clocking should make a difference to the output from the amplifier.

[Flashman]

I had to refresh myself on how to do the firmware upgrade. Interestingly, in its support area, Devialet says that there should be 16 files in each firmware upgrade. The 10.1.0 has 18 files, including three text files. My supposition, with tongue firmly implanted in cheek, is that the extra two files are the secret sauce that's giving better SQ. Sort of like, this amp goes to 11...