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Weak Companion/Right Channel on Monoblocks
#1
I know there are a few posts and one thread that touch on this subject, but I was wondering if any of you have found that the Companion/Right channel amplification is weaker than the master/left side? 

This was true from the day I brought the 400s home and using the stock crystal cable, I found this discontinuity from the first day.  Assuming that it was just a matter of amp/cable break-in I waited patiently.  Things improved slightly or I got accustomed to the sound, but it still had this discontinuity between the left and right side.  It also manifested itself in imaging which occasionally wandered toward the left speaker, once again indicative of a weak and, perhaps even worse, a variable output on the right hand side.

This can sometimes be hard to hear with typical stereo mixes, but if one uses mixes that are hard panned left and right like early stereo it is easy to hear.

My acid test piece is Dave Holland's Extended Play. Cut three has Billy Kilson playing drums on the right channel.  Listen to his solo with the monoblocks and then configuring the master as a stereo 200. 

I had the occasion to hear my cut on a pair of 800s linked with the crystal cable and the effect was easy to hear.

Don't get me wrong, the monoblock configuration is by far the better way to go, but in terms of detail, dynamics and presence, the RHS suffers by comparison

The effect remains with my new Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU hybrid cable, although to a lesser extent.  This is an amazing cable that thrashes the stock Crystal in every other respect, but the weak right channel still remains.




 
Laufer Teknik Memory Player - Atlas Mavros S/PDIF x 2 - Mutec MC-3+ USB Reclocker - Sablon Panatella BNC-SPDIF Digital Cable - LampizatOr Big 7 Tube DAC
Ayre Acoustics AX5-Twenty Amplifier - Rockport Technologies Cygnus Loudspeakers - Rel Gibralter G1 Six Pack Subs - Siltech Princess XLR - Ear to Ear Cables and PCs - Canada
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#2
Have you measured it? If they are good, it could be the speaker placement, room or your hearing.
Synology 713+ -> Aurender N10 -> D 200 -> Legacy Audio Focus SE speakers. ClearAudio Emotion TT. Synergistic Atmosphere Level 3 UEF Speaker and Galileo (USB) Interconnects and Synergistic PowerCell UEF S - Virginia U. S. A.
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#3
This is a difficult effect to demonstrate, but I have shown two other devialet owners its effect.  I have D400 monoblocks which I connect with either the stock Crystal SP/DIF cable or the Audioprana hybrid SP/DIF-AES/EBU link.  The effect is similar using either cable, but slightly less so with the Audioprana.

The effect is best demonstrated on recordings with significant left-right stereo information.  The right hand side is missing information  and seems to be of a slightly lower volume when compared to the master configured as a stereo 200.  

Other than this anomaly, the 400 betters the 200 sonically in every respect I've found so far.

When comparing the 400 to the Master configured as a 200, I use exactly the same input configuration: SAMmed Jamo R909s at 100%; subsonic filter off; with all power saving options, including DPM off;  

An example of this effect can be shown by a piece by the Dave Holland Quintet called Juggler's Parade: cut 3 off of the first disc of 'Extended Play Live at Birdland'.  In this piece there are several places where the 400 clearly falls behind its stereo sibling.  First, from 4:14 to 7:00 into the piece, Billy Kilson's drum kit, which is panned hard right, is not being played while his other bandmates are seriously grooving.  On the 200 there is still a presence on the right channel.  One can feel the drummer sitting and listening to his bandmates.  On the 400, the right channel is almost completely absent from the image.  There is no air on the RHS creating a discontinuity in the soundscape that seems and is, wrong, and there are inadequate micro cues that the instrument still exists despite not currently being played.  It is this significant removal of low level detail that I miss the most.

At 9:30 Dave Holland and Billy Kilson play a duo for two and a half minutes.  This is a truly special moment in the piece and the interplay between the two musicians is magical.  On the best equipment it can be stunning.  On the 200 almost if not all this magic is retained.  On the 400 much of the magic of the interplay is lost.

Later in the piece, from 12:30 to 15:05 Kilsons drumming comes alive explosively, an exciting musical event on the 200 showing why Billy Kilson is considered to be one of the most explosive drummers in Jazz.  This is rendered restrained and uninvolving in comparison by the 400.  

As one of the most critical listeners I know said last night after listening to the 400 then the 200 and back again, its as if Kilson is in a separate room with the 400s, which is sad considering this is one of my best reference live CDs for years.  I know this piece very well, and the 200 gets closer to the musical heart of this aspect of the performance.

Unfortunately, now that I understand this aspect of the 400s performance, I can hear it manifest itself on other pieces.   Sad

Now don't be fooled when you switch from the 400 to the 200 or vice versa.  At first the 400 seems to swamp the 200 and appears better in every respect.  One must listen for these specific characteristics.

I expect the 400s should be better than the 200s in every respect.  That it falls short in this one area has made me consider selling the units and looking elsewhere unless this can be rectified through a future FW update.

I intend to submit these observations to Devialet to see what their response will be.

Kerry
Laufer Teknik Memory Player - Atlas Mavros S/PDIF x 2 - Mutec MC-3+ USB Reclocker - Sablon Panatella BNC-SPDIF Digital Cable - LampizatOr Big 7 Tube DAC
Ayre Acoustics AX5-Twenty Amplifier - Rockport Technologies Cygnus Loudspeakers - Rel Gibralter G1 Six Pack Subs - Siltech Princess XLR - Ear to Ear Cables and PCs - Canada
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#4
Interesting observations. It would be equally interesting to see how Devialet responds.

I have been puzzled at the master/companion link. In a traditional monoblock amp, the conection to the amps would utilise the same mode (SE/XLR) and interconnect cable. Changes to either would affect both amps.

In the case of the case of the D400, there are 4 possible input modes for the master, which signal then has to be converted (as necesary) into S/PDIF for transmission to the companion.

In theory, the signal received at the companion is not the same as that received at the master due to the conversion process and the master/companion cable, thus the differences observed.

Perhaps the way to go may be two masters connected to the source in the same manner?
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#5
(30-May-2015, 19:41)MusicFirst Wrote: I know there are a few posts and one thread that touch on this subject, but I was wondering if any of you have found that the Companion/Right channel amplification is weaker than the master/left side? 

This was true from the day I brought the 400s home and using the stock crystal cable, I found this discontinuity from the first day.  Assuming that it was just a matter of amp/cable break-in I waited patiently.  Things improved slightly or I got accustomed to the sound, but it still had this discontinuity between the left and right side.  It also manifested itself in imaging which occasionally wandered toward the left speaker, once again indicative of a weak and, perhaps even worse, a variable output on the right hand side.

This can sometimes be hard to hear with typical stereo mixes, but if one uses mixes that are hard panned left and right like early stereo it is easy to hear.

My acid test piece is Dave Holland's Extended Play. Cut three has Billy Kilson playing drums on the right channel.  Listen to his solo with the monoblocks and then configuring the master as a stereo 200. 

I had the occasion to hear my cut on a pair of 800s linked with the crystal cable and the effect was easy to hear.

Don't get me wrong, the monoblock configuration is by far the better way to go, but in terms of detail, dynamics and presence, the RHS suffers by comparison

The effect remains with my new Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU hybrid cable, although to a lesser extent.  This is an amazing cable that thrashes the stock Crystal in every other respect, but the weak right channel still remains.




 

Had the same experience like you and with 'better' cable less 'unbalance'.  But after last cable change (Cabledyne) it all sounded balanced until I downloaded  FM 7.1.3. After this I feel the unbalance is back not in a lower quality way just less power output from the companion. May be total imaginary but it wasn't there before unless something else screwed up in my system.

Sorry no help just a bit of comfort that you're not alone /Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#6
Have you tried using an input on the companion amp, which effectively makes the companion the master, to see if the effect is then reversed?
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#7
(01-Jun-2015, 15:46)Confused Wrote: Have you tried using an input on the companion amp, which effectively makes the companion the master, to see if the effect is then reversed?

Or you could just reassign channels to each amp via the configurator? This should also in theory reverse the effect.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

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#8
(01-Jun-2015, 16:46)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(01-Jun-2015, 15:46)Confused Wrote: Have you tried using an input on the companion amp, which effectively makes the companion the master, to see if the effect is then reversed?

Or you could just reassign channels to each amp via the configurator? This should also in theory reverse the effect.

Guillaume

Confused, Good idea, however, I can't use the inputs on the slave with my present setup, as they are disabled using the SP/DIF to AES/EBU link.

G.  Good Idea as well.  Ill try this and reverse the speaker cables as well later tonight.

Kerry
Laufer Teknik Memory Player - Atlas Mavros S/PDIF x 2 - Mutec MC-3+ USB Reclocker - Sablon Panatella BNC-SPDIF Digital Cable - LampizatOr Big 7 Tube DAC
Ayre Acoustics AX5-Twenty Amplifier - Rockport Technologies Cygnus Loudspeakers - Rel Gibralter G1 Six Pack Subs - Siltech Princess XLR - Ear to Ear Cables and PCs - Canada
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#9
(30-May-2015, 19:41)MusicFirst Wrote: I know there are a few posts and one thread that touch on this subject, but I was wondering if any of you have found that the Companion/Right channel amplification is weaker than the master/left side? 

This was true from the day I brought the 400s home and using the stock crystal cable, I found this discontinuity from the first day.  Assuming that it was just a matter of amp/cable break-in I waited patiently.  Things improved slightly or I got accustomed to the sound, but it still had this discontinuity between the left and right side.  It also manifested itself in imaging which occasionally wandered toward the left speaker, once again indicative of a weak and, perhaps even worse, a variable output on the right hand side.

This can sometimes be hard to hear with typical stereo mixes, but if one uses mixes that are hard panned left and right like early stereo it is easy to hear.

My acid test piece is Dave Holland's Extended Play. Cut three has Billy Kilson playing drums on the right channel.  Listen to his solo with the monoblocks and then configuring the master as a stereo 200. 

I had the occasion to hear my cut on a pair of 800s linked with the crystal cable and the effect was easy to hear.

Don't get me wrong, the monoblock configuration is by far the better way to go, but in terms of detail, dynamics and presence, the RHS suffers by comparison

The effect remains with my new Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU hybrid cable, although to a lesser extent.  This is an amazing cable that thrashes the stock Crystal in every other respect, but the weak right channel still remains.




 


I have the same experience that my right channel, driven by the companion, is weaker.

Perhaps Devialet will release room calibration technology that will allow each of us to automatically fine-tune
the master and companion units.
D400; Stereolab Tombo Tron coaxial for master -> slave; Kubala-Sosna Elation interconnects, power, and speaker cables; Spendor D7 speakers; Bryston BDP-2 w. latest sound card & upgraded fuses; Bybee Stealth Power Purifier conditioner connected with IsoTek EVO3 Syncro SE to wall socket
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#10
Have you tried a true mono recording and see if the image is central?
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