2 silver phantoms vs l'ensemble

[midi]

I have both. If I like to hear a real hifi system, I hear with the Ensemble. I have compared both system under identical room terms, for me the Ensemble is much better.

You are just what the doctor ordered :-), please say more

As it appears you have kept both, what are you "using" the phantom for (as in given that the ensemble is much better, what about the phantom made them keepers)

I have the Ensemble in my living room 3-4 m in front of the sofa. The whole room is open to the dining room and kitchen and about 55 qm. I have tested two Phantoms side by side with the Athoms. Now I am using only one Phantom in the dining room, while eating. The other one has gone back to the dealer, because I decided to go primarily with the ENSEMBLE.

The reason was, that I would like to hear different music at different volumes. The PHANTOMS are great for higher volumes (even garden parties) and show their strenght with fast beats. They have a very direct sound - if you like this. I can see no further sound advantage. For me the ENSEMBLE/Athoms have the better mids and the sound is much more than a hifi system should sound for me - very clear and detailed, smooth, with an impressive pleasant SAM-bass (even for the size). So I can hear hours of music with my ENSEMBLE and it´s great until the last minute. With the PHANTOM I have the feeling to switch it off after a shorter time.

The reaction of my (objective) guests and music fans confirm this. They are all very impressed by the ENSEMBLE (not by the PHANTOM).

[MountainGuy]

Thank you midi. I'd love to hear an ensemble one day. Dealers say similar things as you do.

Question if I may: What do you mean by 'direct' sound? just more focused and precise in the placement? Less 'diffused' or large soundstage?

Do you find the bass extension of the Ensemble to match the Phantoms?

My guess is that part of what you are hearing is higher musical resolution in the ensemble. I don't know - just a guess.

Thanks.

[ZoMan]

I have both. If I like to hear a real hifi system, I hear with the Ensemble. I have compared both system under identical room terms, for me the Ensemble is much better.

You are just what the doctor ordered :-), please say more

As it appears you have kept both, what are you "using" the phantom for (as in given that the ensemble is much better, what about the phantom made them keepers)

I have the Ensemble in my living room 3-4 m in front of the sofa. The whole room is open to the dining room and kitchen and about 55 qm. I have tested two Phantoms side by side with the Athoms. Now I am using only one Phantom in the dining room,  while eating. The other one has gone back to the dealer, because I decided to go primarily with the ENSEMBLE.

The reason was, that I would like to hear different music at different volumes. The PHANTOMS are great for higher volumes (even garden parties) and show their strenght with fast beats. They have a very direct sound - if you like this. I can see no further sound advantage. For me the ENSEMBLE/Athoms have the better mids and the sound is much more than a hifi system should sound for me - very clear and detailed, smooth, with an impressive pleasant SAM-bass (even for the size). So I can hear hours of music with my ENSEMBLE and it´s great until the last minute. With the PHANTOM I have the feeling to switch it off after a shorter time.

The reaction of my (objective) guests and music fans confirm this. They are all very impressed by the ENSEMBLE (not by the PHANTOM).

Hi Midi,
Many thanks sharing your experience. Curious to hear your response to MountainGuy's questions.

Otherwise, while the poll how stands at 69/31 in favor of the silver phantoms, I am now leaning towards l'ensemble.

[midi]

[quote='MountainGuy' pid='30318' dateline='1449652299']
Thank you midi. I'd love to hear an ensemble one day.  Dealers say similar things as you do.

Question if I may: What do you mean by 'direct' sound?  just more focused and precise in the placement?  Less 'diffused' or large soundstage?

Do you find the bass extension of the Ensemble to match the Phantoms?  

My guess is that part of what you are hearing is higher musical resolution in the ensemble.  I don't know - just a guess.

Thanks.


The Phantom sound is focused - like a spot. The Ensemble has the bigger soundstage.

I´am sure, if you have heard the Ensemble with SAM on, you will not trust your ears - so little speakers with such a deep clear bass...

The Phantoms have also a great bass, without any distortions even with very high volumes. But for me not as "musically" as the Ensemble.

[streamy]

The Phantom sound is focused - like a spot. The Ensemble has the bigger soundstage.

I doubt that the Phantom sound is focused, definitely not what the soundstage is concerned with a pair of Phantoms and Dialog, correctly set-up and positioned. Soundstage is very wide and instruments are precisely locatable. Great phase response, neutral frequency response. My impression is that midi is referring to his single Phantom and during the time he was listening to a pair either the system might not have been correctly set up (mix configuration instead of 1 room with left and right). In my setup e.g. instrument positions recorded out of phase can be located around 25% outside of the speaker location, which gives a very wide soundstage. My B&W 802 are narrower in direct comparison, however not driven by Devialet expert amps but with older Perreaux amp.

[MountainGuy]

The Phantom sound is focused - like a spot. The Ensemble has the bigger soundstage.

I doubt that the Phantom sound is focused, definitely not what the soundstage is concerned with a pair of Phantoms and Dialog, correctly set-up and positioned. Soundstage is very wide and instruments are precisely locatable. Great phase response, neutral frequency response. My impression is that midi is referring to his single Phantom and during the time he was listening to a pair either the system might not have been correctly set up (mix configuration instead of 1 room with left and right). In my setup e.g. instrument positions recorded out of phase can be located around 25% outside of the speaker location, which gives a very wide soundstage. My B&W 802 are narrower in direct comparison, however not driven by Devialet expert amps but with older Perreaux amp.

Streamy, I am NOT at all looking to be argumentative. But I'll give Midi the benefit of the doubt.  Given that he has both, he obviously put some time and money into the process and I'll guess that he did set them up right.  I have a set up right now that also gives me wider soundstage than the Phantoms and I would say that the Phantoms for me is quite focused in the sound. THat's not bad.  Very direct is also how I'll say it.  HOWEVER, my wife felt that it sounded very wide/large.  So hearing also differs.

Just a thought.

[eibet]

The Phantom sound is focused - like a spot. The Ensemble has the bigger soundstage.

I doubt that the Phantom sound is focused, definitely not what the soundstage is concerned with a pair of Phantoms and Dialog, correctly set-up and positioned. Soundstage is very wide and instruments are precisely locatable. Great phase response, neutral frequency response. My impression is that midi is referring to his single Phantom and during the time he was listening to a pair either the system might not have been correctly set up (mix configuration instead of 1 room with left and right). In my setup e.g. instrument positions recorded out of phase can be located around 25% outside of the speaker location, which gives a very wide soundstage. My B&W 802 are narrower in direct comparison, however not driven by Devialet expert amps but with older Perreaux amp.

Streamy, I am NOT at all looking to be argumentative. But I'll give Midi the benefit of the doubt.  Given that he has both, he obviously put some time and money into the process and I'll guess that he did set them up right.  I have a set up right now that also gives me wider soundstage than the Phantoms and I would say that the Phantoms for me is quite focused in the sound. THat's not bad.  Very direct is also how I'll say it.  HOWEVER, my wife felt that it sounded very wide/large.  So hearing also differs.

Just a thought.

Hello.

The Phantoms sound is very direct, narrow, calll it what you will, but when you are in the correct position of the Phantoms they do give a wide soundstage with correctly placed sounds, instruments and voices. That's why one person sitting to the side can here one thing and another sitting more centered between them can get a hole other experience.

[streamy]

I agree that hearing differs. And a single Phantom sounds like a spot in near field. Normal, for mono playback and also normal for compact stereo systems like many sound bars or sonos, b&w zeppelin and the like. The low diffraction of the Phantom minimizes reflextions when set up with toe-in in a triangle with the listener. Other speakers with direct and indirect drivers or different than dynamic drivers spread more. One might like this or not. But a pair of Phantom silver set up in a triangle to the listener do not sound like a spot when listening to music recorded to fill the soundstage. I cannot comment on differences between the Ensemble and a pair of Phantoms and do not doubt midi's impression that the Ensemble has a wider soundstage. But I have difficulties to accept that a pair of Phantoms sound like a spot when korrectly placed and set up.

[midi]

Perhaps I should clarify my opinion:

1. My living room is at it is. I have no other possibilities to change this conditions (but they aren´t too bad, nearly a perfect triangle). I have compared both systems under this similar conditions and for me the result was clear. So If you want so, under my conditions the Ensemble seems to sound better. One the other hand: why should the system (Phantom) be the better one, which is working really good only under some special conditions and why should the Ensemble be worse under other conditions ? For me a strange reasoning...

2. I neutral asked some other (not audiophile) people about their opinion. They required only a few minutes. All with the same result..

3. Before my comparison I was sure I return my Ensemble system to the dealer and replace it with two Phantoms (and get a lot of money back)- this was my real plan. I abandoned this plan after the comparison. So I have really no reason to justify one system.

4. It´s only my opinion. Both systems are very good. And I am sure for some people (under special conditions) the Phantom is perfect. I have no problems with their (other) opinion.

[streamy]

All fine with your opinion! And all fine with your findings. The only thing that triggered me was your (midi's) statement regarding a pair of Phantoms set-up the way one sets up a stereo system (in a triangle to the preferred listing position) the sound is focused like a spot. This is definitely not the case - so my intervention. There can be many reeasons why one system fits better the the room conditions than an other. In my situation the Phantoms fit the room conditions. I have no disturbing room modes in my living room that would impair the wide frequency response of the phantoms. So I can appreciate the full spectrum the phantoms deliver in (this is my opinion) a neutral way. In my media room (7.1 system installed) the Phantoms sound bad. Room modes interfere at crucian frequencies. I have the impression it must be the wide frequency range that limits the quality there. From this experience I'm very much aware that the room defines witch sonic setup gives joy and enjoyment.