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D200 Mod 2.0.1
#1
To those considering a next step mod to their Ds  Wink

Some of you know already that I did some mods to my D200. Now it was like a splinter in my brain that I really wanted to get rid of these pin-contacts connecting to the binding posts.
So, where to contact cables for speaker binding posts inside the D for best results? I measured for some signal paths and ended soldering directly to the contacts coming from off the digital amp onto the motherboard.
I know it looks like kind of a rude cable hack...but to be honest...it's not my fault Devialet didn't provide a sufficient solder contact for customizing  Big Grin
Technically the mod is simple. I used 4 cables of the same length, fitted the endings and soldered directly on the solder joints of the board. That's a direct of a signal path as it can be.

And...here is what's very pleasant about the mod.
I would call it a full reversible mod if you're brave enough to first rip the motherboard out of the D. You have to because otherwise you won't get the riserboard off the pin strip that's contacting to the binding posts (I didn't but it would've been better).
You then can get a 4-pin strip for the XLR input, stick it to the outer right pin strip of the motherboard and solder the XLR-input to the 4-pin strip. Everything is reversable then (but good skills are needed with the soldering iron because the contacts at the digital amp strip are very small.

Ok. Why was this splinter in my brain? That's why!
Man, this is kind of an update I couldn't have thought of. The unconscious mind knew hence the splinter but you can't think of something you haven't heard yet.

The sound is sooo much more 3D now. Control over every sound (especially bass) has gained to such an amount I wouldn't believed before. Again it seems as if the power of the D200 doubled. Sure I know it didn't but it feels like. There's so much control on high volumes on the bass and at the same time so sweet the sound of micro details. Never heard such a control of an amp before. Bass is so full - in time - rolling - thrusty - and 'everything'. Never heard a ported bass sounding so precise/in time...similar to a bass in an enclosed chamber.

It's so much better than before when the binding posts were just soldered to the pin strip of the motherboard (...and even that was such an improvement over the original). The pin strip looks a bit like a mess but I had to short out the 7 pins of each speaker contact (7 pins each for L + - R+ -) since it have full output power potential on it. No good.

So, everybody brave enough do this kind of mod. It's really worth. If you own a Dxxx and won't update it's a no brainer because you gain so much in SQ.
Every Pro-Owner having soldering skills and being brave enough can do this mod too as it is full reversible.

Have fun. Any questions/problems...just ask  Wink

gui

p.s. the Ds seem to have so much potential in its design, it's staggering. If I were a real pro in electronics I would rip ALL this pin stripes out of a D and make solid soldering connections from board to board. That would be an immense improvement I bet. I find it annoying that Devialet builds this amp just fast and dirty (yeah, I know the design looks very clean) to save money on the production and throws away the ultimate sound in hifi.


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"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#2
(10-Dec-2016, 21:30)yabaVR Wrote: To those considering a next step mod to their Ds  Wink
Hi gui
is it correct that the minus on both speaker outputs is common for the two channels?
Have you had a chance to look at the layout for the Pro models (my 250 is 'travelling' at the moment so I can't check)?
*
Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#3
(11-Dec-2016, 10:10)ogs Wrote:
(10-Dec-2016, 21:30)yabaVR Wrote: To those considering a next step mod to their Ds  Wink
Hi gui
is it correct that the minus on both speaker outputs is common for the two channels?
Have you had a chance to look at the layout for the Pro models (my 250 is 'travelling' at the moment so I can't check)?

Hi ogs,
yes  ground is common for both channels. It was the same for every amp I opened in the past and the D doesn't differ.

The layout of the Pro's is the same for the speaker terminals as I can see. You can have a look at Antoine's System post.There's a picture of his 250 Pro opened. I did not have opened a Pro myself yet and I would meassure first before soldering.

The new mod is still burning in (about 48h now) but very promising as I can hear this big of an improvement just yet.

gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#4
(11-Dec-2016, 10:32)yabaVR Wrote: Hi ogs,
yes  ground is common for both channels. It was the same for every amp I opened in the past and the D doesn't differ.

The layout of the Pro's is the same for the speaker terminals as I can see. You can have a look at Antoine's System post.There's a picture of his 250 Pro opened. I did not have opened a Pro myself yet and I would meassure first before soldering.

The new mod is still burning in (about 48h now) but very promising as I can hear this big of an improvement just yet.

gui

Can I ask what the 2x10 pin connector is used for? I assume the D-board is using this, but do you know what signals it carries?

As the internal construction is using many 'pin' connections, is this the reason why we see so many different burn in descriptions? If the metal quality or contact area (quality) varies from unit to unit this could affect burn in and sound. Do you think a contact enhancer fluid of some kind would work here?
*
Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#5
I am interested in the rational behind these modifications, that is what issue exactly are you trying to mitigate? Please don't take this negatively, I am not dismissing your good work here, I am just trying to understand it. In fact, I have quite a history of 'modding', although in my case with cars, not electronics. So I get the pleasure of all this, driving a quick car is fun, but driving a quick car that is quick because you have rebuilt and modified the engine yourself adds an extra level to the joy! I presume the same thing applies to hifi.

So, back to these pin connectors. Is the idea here to replace the pin connectors because they are a 'weak link', with the pin itself or the soldered connection of the pin offering higher resistance versus a decent soldered cable? As it happens, I did experience a car breaking down once. The fault was with the relay that switched the fuel pump, this had a pin connector that must have been running as a high resistance connection, had been getting very hot and had actually burnt the solder around the connection. At a glance, this looked like a perfect soldered joint, but looking closely, you could see the solder had burned away from the pin, leaving the pin running through a perfect cylinder of solder, but connecting nowhere by an absolute fraction of a millimetre. This was a hard fault to find, but was fixed in about 10 minutes once found. It didn't need large cables to fix though, just decent quality soldering.

So, I can see the issues with pin joints, they are a bit fragile, but I am thinking that if the soldered joints are high quality and executed as they should be, then all should be well. Is this not correct? Can it be shown that they offer resistance? Although noting Antoine's experience with his 250 Pro which required remedial soldering on delivery, maybe Devialet's execution of the soldering of these pin joints is not the best? I have no idea, I've never ventured inside mine to take a look!
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#6
I clearly prefer my new 5 year guarantee...
But in general this kind of modding can really help. The terminals of my speakers are also modded with WBT NextGen and a solid core silver cable from the WBT's to the crossover. This has also a positive effect.
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#7
(11-Dec-2016, 12:52)Confused Wrote: I am interested in the rational behind these modifications, that is what issue exactly are you trying to mitigate?  Please don't take this negatively, I am not dismissing your good work here, I am just trying to understand it.  In fact, I have quite a history of 'modding', although in my case with cars, not electronics.  So I get the pleasure of all this, driving a quick car is fun, but driving a quick car that is quick because you have rebuilt and modified the engine yourself adds an extra level to the joy!  I presume the same thing applies to hifi.

So, back to these pin connectors.  Is the idea here to replace the pin connectors because they are a 'weak link', with the pin itself or the soldered connection of the pin offering higher resistance versus a decent soldered cable?  As it happens, I did experience a car breaking down once.  The fault was with the relay that switched the fuel pump, this had a pin connector that must have been running as a high resistance connection, had been getting very hot and had actually burnt the solder around the connection.  At a glance, this looked like a perfect soldered joint, but looking closely, you could see the solder had burned away from the pin, leaving the pin running through a perfect cylinder of solder, but connecting nowhere by an absolute fraction of a millimetre.  This was a hard fault to find, but was fixed in about 10 minutes once found.  It didn't need large cables to fix though, just decent quality soldering.

So, I can see the issues with pin joints, they are a bit fragile, but I am thinking that if the soldered joints are high quality and executed as they should be, then all should be well.  Is this not correct?  Can it be shown that they offer resistance?  Although noting Antoine's experience with his 250 Pro which required remedial soldering on delivery, maybe Devialet's execution of the soldering of these pin joints is not the best?  I have no idea, I've never ventured inside mine to take a look!

Hello Confused

I think it is not the soldering alone that is the problem here, but the metal (purity) of the pins and the how good the contact is. A connection like this can easily be or become nonlinear and introduce distortion. So it is not just the resistance of a connection but the complex equivalence which includes capacitance, inductance and diode-like properties. Of course if the PCB trace is too thin this can also affect current delivery.
Your car example is good, but here it is either a voltage connection or none.
*
Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#8
(11-Dec-2016, 12:17)ogs Wrote:
(11-Dec-2016, 10:32)yabaVR Wrote: Hi ogs,
yes  ground is common for both channels. It was the same for every amp I opened in the past and the D doesn't differ.

The layout of the Pro's is the same for the speaker terminals as I can see. You can have a look at Antoine's System post.There's a picture of his 250 Pro opened. I did not have opened a Pro myself yet and I would meassure first before soldering.

The new mod is still burning in (about 48h now) but very promising as I can hear this big of an improvement just yet.

gui

Can I ask what the 2x10 pin connector is used for? I assume the D-board is using this, but do you know what signals it carries?

As the internal construction is using many 'pin' connections, is this the reason why we see so many different burn in descriptions? If the metal quality or contact area (quality) varies from unit to unit this could affect burn in and sound. Do you think a contact enhancer fluid of some kind would work here?

The 2x10 pin connector is 2x4 (+ signal left), 2x4 (+ signal right) and 2x2 (signal ground). It's the 'downpipe' from the D-amp above.
As a Devialet kind of 'mixes' the voltage of Class A and current of Class D this pin connector is the place they both get married  Heart (or near by on the motherboard). If you meassure the signal paths they (Class A - Class D) are both paralleled at this site.

The design of pin connecting the boards is clever if viewed from production side. No special qualification is needed to put a D together. Shown once or twice and everybody in this forum can plug the boards together, fasten some screws and that's it. Very fast and cheap. Maybe 10min needed if you made it past the 20th sample and you get routine.
Also there will be less connection faults with the pin stripes as when soldered with single cables. You need more skills to solder board to board and the chance something goes wrong is quiet bigger.

There are special fluids on the market to enhance the contact area of such pin connectors. Not the standard but some more expensive 'better sounding' fluids. I'm sure some of the others can come around with a link.

gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#9
(11-Dec-2016, 12:52)Confused Wrote: I am interested in the rational behind these modifications, that is what issue exactly are you trying to mitigate?  Please don't take this negatively, I am not dismissing your good work here, I am just trying to understand it.  In fact, I have quite a history of 'modding', although in my case with cars, not electronics.  So I get the pleasure of all this, driving a quick car is fun, but driving a quick car that is quick because you have rebuilt and modified the engine yourself adds an extra level to the joy!  I presume the same thing applies to hifi.

So, back to these pin connectors.  Is the idea here to replace the pin connectors because they are a 'weak link', with the pin itself or the soldered connection of the pin offering higher resistance versus a decent soldered cable?  As it happens, I did experience a car breaking down once.  The fault was with the relay that switched the fuel pump, this had a pin connector that must have been running as a high resistance connection, had been getting very hot and had actually burnt the solder around the connection.  At a glance, this looked like a perfect soldered joint, but looking closely, you could see the solder had burned away from the pin, leaving the pin running through a perfect cylinder of solder, but connecting nowhere by an absolute fraction of a millimetre.  This was a hard fault to find, but was fixed in about 10 minutes once found.  It didn't need large cables to fix though, just decent quality soldering.

So, I can see the issues with pin joints, they are a bit fragile, but I am thinking that if the soldered joints are high quality and executed as they should be, then all should be well.  Is this not correct?  Can it be shown that they offer resistance?  Although noting Antoine's experience with his 250 Pro which required remedial soldering on delivery, maybe Devialet's execution of the soldering of these pin joints is not the best?  I have no idea, I've never ventured inside mine to take a look!

I know it's hard to not think of meassuring  Big Grin .

But as you mentioned the car...let me give an analogy.
Imagine the perfekt race track. Completely even surface, nice grip. It's fast and fun to drive. Now someone does a copy of this track but with poor skills. He meassures the length, the width, gradients etc. Then he starts building to the exact values he meassured but messes up with the surface (something he has not even thought of). The surface got steps, slick parts, gravel and the like. Everything he meassured is correct. It's the same track when viewed from far away. But if you drive the track you won't go that fast and it's of no pleasure to drive on.

What I want to say is that a Pin Connection and a Direct Wired Connection might meassure nearly the same but only on the meassuring you are used to. You can only meassure values you know of...but I can imagine that 'science' does not have the whole picture yet. I don't have either. But I've got some very good ears...and I trust them  Big Grin

When I think of modifying something I'm looking at the original design and multiply this to its extrems. Let's say you don't use a 2x10 pin connector but a 2x100 pin connector and compare this to a single solid core cable. Now...yourself being the signal which path would you like to take? This view maybe very unscientific...but includes at least some truth. Keep signal paths short and of pure material. Don't change material, profil, less joints...keep it simple. Same as the latest WBT 'Next Gen' or Furutechs latest plugs/connections. Less & pure is more.

gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#10
(11-Dec-2016, 14:56)yabaVR Wrote: I know it's hard to not think of meassuring  Big Grin .

What I want to say is that a Pin Connection and a Direct Wired Connection might meassure nearly the same but only on the meassuring you are used to. You can only meassure values you know of...but I can imagine that 'science' does not have the whole picture yet. I don't have either. But I've got some very good ears...and I trust them  Big Grin

If your mod is easily audible, id say there's zero chance that the difference can't be measured, and to some precision. No doubt using the same kit Devialet design and test these boards with (else they wouldn't exist or improve since Devialet say they measure only). With the right kit we can measure the weakest analogue signals at a sub atomic level, so I don't think audio bands are untapped scientifically.

Ok so the kit isn't cheap or readily available, and you'd also need a lab, and knowledge and experience - to both take the measurements and interpret the results - but if there's a difference I'm sure some numbers could be put on it.

If it were a huge improvement, I'd actually be tempted, but the ex-scientist in me sort of wants to know what's changed too.

More disappointing is Devialet. If soldering a few wires made it sound a lot better, it seems pretty lazy not to do it on kit that costs as much as it does. Well, at least not doing it because it makes assembly easier is just silly. This isn't mass market electronics.

I'd be worried about warranty. Maybe we could petition Devialet to do a second upgrade scheme, where for £50 they'll take our amps back, solder these connections, and send them back to us under warranty?! Bung in the streamer board at the same time. If we had concrete measurements we might have a chance to persuade them!

GUI, I think you mentioned you might have a modded one in the UK to listen to at some point? Maybe you'll mod a Pro too?

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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