Devialet amplifier power ratings and AC mains regenerators

[Antoine]

Antoine, wouldn't it be better to do both balanced and A/C mains regen?  If I'm not mistaken, there is a balanced transformer before the mains amplifiers in all the original PS audio devices (P300-P2000).

They stopped outputting 'balanced' power with the introduction of the PPP (Power Plant Premier). I'm no specialist in the matter and I'd like to think that PS Audio keeps evolving it's products instead of devolving them. But I also remember that the reasons, pros and cons have been discussed a lot back in the day, I googled and found this in a PPP review, it's a response from Paul McGowan on the matter:

One major difference between the Power Plant Premier and earlier models is that the Power Plant Premier does not output balanced power. When I questioned Paul about this, he emailed the following unedited explanation:

“The only advantage of delivering balanced power is the potential noise reduction you get in the equipment being driven - but in a sense, that's a bit misleading. Let me explain.

“When you send a balanced AC signal, the incoming transformer is driven in balanced mode. What this allows is for common mode rejection of up to 10dB of any noise on the power cable between the Power Plant and the unit being driven. While this sounds good, the truth is if you use a shielded power cable - there isn't any noise to be lowered and the balanced power is then useless.

“Many people mistakenly think that balanced power lowers noise in the system (it does not), lowers noise in the unit being driven (it does not), and lowers noise in the Power Plant (it does not). All it can do is lower any noises in the power cable between the PPP and the unit being driven.

“Since balanced power isn't really that effective at lowering noise, we found it advantageous to eliminate it in favor of efficiency. One of the reasons the new PPP is 85% efficient - relative to the 48% efficiency of the older Power Plants - is the use of single ended power rather than balanced. Considering the major benefits of driving your whole system with perfected power vs. just some of the system - or, in some cases - having a much more powerful lower impedance Power Plant like the Premier - sonically it makes all the difference in the world.

“So summing up - we traded balanced power for efficiency knowing that the only downside is that one has to use a decent well shielded power cable to feed their equipment. Since you should be doing that anyway, there's really no downside at all.”

[MusicFirst]

I'd like to thank Antoine for his contributions on this matter. I come form the camp where the installation of a good quality separate spur from the consumer unit offers very big benefits. But I am soon moving to a country where mains supply is flaky, fluctuating and indeed, sometimes friable! So I have to think of ways to protect my Devialet and associated components, in ways that have the least effect on the sound, from a power supply grid that could indeed damage an unprotected system. Certainly his posts and what I have researched on PS Audio as well, and the P3 seems like a good fit.

Regenerate, rather than recondition, I like the concept. Hard for me to try, no local dealers do any type of regenerator unit.

Just remember that the P3 is only able to generate 1000 to 1500va, approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of the 3000w peak current that the D200 can consume.  PS audio does not make a regenerator that can deliver the 3000 watts that the D200s power supply can consume.

[Antoine]

Funny how you mention/compare the specced continuous power output of the PS Audio and the very short term peak power of the Devialet.

Again you're forgetting that the PS Audio's can also deliver a much higher short term peak power. (up to 9200W for a 230V P3)

[Manoet]

Antoine-
A few days ago you posted some actual and Devialet spec watt figures. I tried asking a question but somehow it got lost in the power generator ratings fracas. I was wondering if you might be able to answer these today specifically as they relate to Devialet and irrespective of power generation?

Antoine said;
"Again what the numbers mean is that the internal PSU of a Devialet can output 600W continuously (steady long term without overheating/breaking down/etc.) and peaks of 3000W (short term only).
Anyone who owns a simple power usage meter can see that it uses no where near that. My 250 uses 31W playing music inputted through USB @ -25dB volume setting, DPM off!"

A few minutes later I asked the following question:
"Antoine, I have serious doubts about these units, if currently running closer to 30 watts continuous at 'normal' listening volumes being able to run continuously at 20X "31 watts" (~600 watts) power consumption and holding together for any length of time. Hard for me to imagine anything currently running at/near 30 watts at an internal temp of ~45C only running 60-65C rated "safe" operating temperature at 20X your measured power consumption. Seems to me people would start smelling melting plastic, cap wraps, phenolic, insulation and not be able to touch these things without oven mitts within a half hour of power-up. What am I missing?"

Thanks in advance for your response,
Manoet

[MusicFirst]

Funny how you mention/compare the specced continuous power output of the PS Audio and the very short term peak power of the Devialet.

Again you're forgetting that the PS Audio's can also deliver a much higher short term peak power. (up to 9200W for a 230V P3)

Nowhere did did I "mention/compare the specced continuous power output of the PS Audio"

The numbers I compared were PS Audios stated 1000/1500va "momentary output capabilities" of the P3 and Devialet's stated peak power requirements of 3000 watts.

Apples to Apples.

Its the 9200W you keep quoting that has no basis or no meaning. If it did, it would still be on McGowans website.

As always I encourage everyone to let their ears decide.

Kerry

[Antoine]

Last response from me on this matter.

Please apply some logic here, the Devialet is rated for a continuous 600W, the P3 double that (230V version). You believe the (of course partly marketing) numbers of Devialet but don't believe the marketing numbers that PS audio once displayed on their site. Paul McGowan already explained why those numbers are no longer there. Perhaps Devialet should also remove the number. You and I both don't know under what exact conditions the 3000W number applies, perhaps it's also a cycle to cycle maximum.

Remember both the Devialet and PP's are power amplifiers in it's basis. The same laws of nature apply for both.

[Antoine]

@Manoet, I really don't know I'm sorry.

And it's even worse than my initial numbers suggested as the Devialet hovers at a usage of 30-31W when playing at a -25dB normal listening level and a steady 30W at a minimum volume level of -97,5dB. So it's actually using less than 1W at normal levels. You would indeed think it would melt and burn down at a usage of 600W!!

[Manoet]

Thanks Antoine! I'm completely flummoxed! I mean I can see where maybe Devialet embellished their 600W 'continuous' rating tho I'm unsure what benefit or 'good' might come from it. Compounded by the fact that internal temps which while perhaps not linear are at least closely tied to power consumption and Devialet having no way to shed internal heat other than thermal convective dissipation. Just a guess on my part that at current operating temperatures of ~45C at normal listening levels would likely closely parallel near a 20% thermal increase with an accompanying 20% watt increase. Yet I'm totally unable to reconcile Devialet's claim that the unit itself can run a 'continual' 2,000%+ increase over your observed readings while simultaneously remaining within their touted "its perfectly ok to run temps of up to 60-65C." Either I or we are severely misunderstanding something or someone's severely misleading us.

And while admittedly this question may seem a little like a dog chasing a car... I mean what do I do with it if I catch it!?! I'd still really like to have a clearer understanding, the truth or both.

[mauidan]

With all my gear plugged into a PS Audio P5 and the D400 set as loud as I ever listen (-18 db), the system is only using 11% of the P5's capasity.