First impressions

[thumb5]

If I spend $5K on this, I'd be pissed if Devialet comes out with a Phantom v2, better than the current one...

Let me make a (not very radical) prediction: within a couple of years Devialet will release something smaller, cheaper and 1000 times better.

I only partly have my tongue in my cheek -- there will inevitably be a better product at some point, be it from Devialet or someone else.  For what it's worth, I think you have to buy them or not based on whether you think they are a good thing as they are now.  And that even takes into account the fact that the firmware may (or may not) improve.

[IanG-UK]

I think they will do something smaller but I doubt they will also do something bigger/better. The Devialet tactic, I think, is to be to make the best and most expensive and say its stunning, then come in with a cut down model or two to attract volume sales, claiming similarly stunning performance.

Hence I doubt we will see an Expert 1200 but more likely an Expert 60 at under £2k; and doubt we will see a Super Phantom but more likely a Mini Phantom plus Dialog at under £1k.

The founders will want to make serious money having given away lots of equity and/or taken on a lot of debt - and they'll try to do that (though not necessarily succeed) through worldwide volume sales, IMO. (Or flogging off their IP.)

[mixart]

Smaller Phantom would make since for surround, when DTS/Dolby comes later this year for Phantom/Dialog

[deviousalet]

The amount of power being used by Phantoms, and to a slightly less extent Expert with SAM, will depend entirely how much low frequency information there is in the music you are listening to, and how loud you are playing.
The only time they will be taking a constant amount of power will be in standby.

The figures for the B&W and KEFs playing music would be varying not fixed, and with SAM would vary a lot if there is the occasional deep bass.

I disconnect my kit from the power when not using it, but have never timed how long to boot either my 800 or the Phantoms, though I guess the Phantoms are quite a bit longer since I have launched Spark and only had 1 speaker showing at first.

Compared to the two Krell KSA 200b stereo amps I used with my active Apogee Divas the Devialets use negligible power, and can comfortably be used in summer

Since you have a D800 and Phantoms you could do the direct comparison if you have a watt meter.
I don't have Phantoms, but was passing on a best-case power figure (wasting all energy in standby not using any to play music). I assume they will use more power when actually doing something. In my own power measurements I saw a little variation (3W) using big B&W N802 speakers, but very little variation using small KEF LS50 speakers. As you say, bass takes power and the B&Ws have some (-3dB@34Hz) while the KEFs have very little (-3dB@80Hz).
If you would please measure your systems that would be great. Even just a stopwatch and powering on the Phantoms would be educational. Thanks.

[Vince_JP]

Devialet claims to want to bring Hi-Fi SQ "to the people". It's a very good idea, because very few by now can afford/ would make priority on a 10/15K Hi-Fi Set (beside the fact that most sets have WAF 0). Everyone deserves what I call "wellness for the ears", clear music, it's just life quality. It's an audiophile forum I know, but may be you haven't forgot the time when you didn't had the privilege to listen to Hi-Fi SQ and had sound from tin-cans.
Devialet's first "entrance price" is still to high for a lot of people and 1K will still be for many, but imo they're kind of changing the game. That they want/make serious money is I think "normal" or their reward.
My 2 white phantoms were my entrance in this "world" and I don't regret a single euro I spent, and if tomorrow they bring an "even better&cheaper" system, I'll applause cause I know a bunch of people who'd like to have my phantoms too.

[Jean-Marie]

Devialet claims to want to bring Hi-Fi SQ "to the people". It's a very good idea, because very few by now can afford/ would make priority on a 10/15K Hi-Fi Set (beside the fact that most sets have WAF 0). Everyone deserves what I call "wellness for the ears", clear music, it's just life quality. It's an audiophile forum I know, but may be you haven't forgot the time when you didn't had the privilege to listen to Hi-Fi SQ and had sound from tin-cans.
Devialet's first "entrance price" is still to high for a lot of people and 1K will still be for many, but imo they're kind of changing the game. That they want/make serious money is I think "normal" or their reward.
My 2 white phantoms were my entrance in this "world" and I don't regret a single euro I spent, and if tomorrow they bring an "even better&cheaper" system, I'll applause cause I know a bunch of people who'd like to have my phantoms too.

I'm whole heartily with you.

My only fear, but that's a good one to have, is that they will cross the threshold where I won't be able to argue anymore why I don't need phantoms in addition to my current system....

[f1eng]

The amount of power being used by Phantoms, and to a slightly less extent Expert with SAM, will depend entirely how much low frequency information there is in the music you are listening to, and how loud you are playing.
The only time they will be taking a constant amount of power will be in standby.

The figures for the B&W and KEFs playing music would be varying not fixed, and with SAM would vary a lot if there is the occasional deep bass.

I disconnect my kit from the power when not using it, but have never timed how long to boot either my 800 or the Phantoms, though I guess the Phantoms are quite a bit longer since I have launched Spark and only had 1 speaker showing at first.

Compared to the two Krell KSA 200b stereo amps I used with my active Apogee Divas the Devialets use negligible power, and can comfortably be used in summer

Since you have a D800 and Phantoms you could do the direct comparison if you have a watt meter.
I don't have Phantoms, but was passing on a best-case power figure (wasting all energy in standby not using any to play music). I assume they will use more power when actually doing something. In my own power measurements I saw a little variation (3W) using big B&W N802 speakers, but very little variation using small KEF LS50 speakers. As you say, bass takes power and the B&Ws have some (-3dB@34Hz) while the KEFs have very little (-3dB@80Hz).
If you would please measure your systems that would be great. Even just a stopwatch and powering on the Phantoms would be educational. Thanks.

I was going to measure power consumption when playing loud bass (ie lots of SAM correction) but have mislaid my power meter. I will do it when it turns up.
I can measure the Phantoms with lots of bass, my Animas which only require 500 milliwatts to be the same loudness as silver Phantoms flat out, and my LS50s with SAM, which will also need lots of power when using SAM and deep bass. But not until I come across the meter...

Timing the boot time of the Phantoms is a problem since there is no real way of knowing if they are up without launching Spark and seeing if it sees them both. If it doesn't see either it sits and waits but I do not know how frequently it is polling them so have no idea how soon after they are fully up that Spark goes to the next stage of its launch.
I just plug 'em in a few minutes before I plan to listen.

[deviousalet]

I was going to measure power consumption when playing loud bass (ie lots of SAM correction) but have mislaid my power meter. I will do it when it turns up.
I can measure the Phantoms with lots of bass, my Animas which only require 500 milliwatts to be the same loudness as silver Phantoms flat out, and my LS50s with SAM, which will also need lots of power when using SAM and deep bass. But not until I come across the meter...

Timing the boot time of the Phantoms is a problem since there is no real way of knowing if they are up without launching Spark and seeing if it sees them both. If it doesn't see either it sits and waits but I do not know how frequently it is polling them so have no idea how soon after they are fully up that Spark goes to the next stage of its launch.
I just plug 'em in a few minutes before I plan to listen.

Thanks. I look forward to your measurements when you find your meter.
What you said about the Phantoms make sense, and I'm glad to hear that they work well being unplugged then powered before listening.

[Dvlt PhD]

When Devialet released their most expensive Expert line, did they make hardware improvements on that release later on? Or does the most expensive current amp still has the same hardware, as when it was released a few years ago? If they did make hardware changes, how many years after the release?


Thanks.


Trying to use that logic for the Phantom, but maybe that doesn't apply at the moment, since maybe Devialet has done all the hardware improvements they wanted to, already, and applied that to the Phantom...

[f1eng]

When Devialet released their most expensive Expert line, did they make hardware improvements on that release later on? Or does the most expensive current amp still has the same hardware, as when it was released a few years ago? If they did make hardware changes, how many years after the release?


Thanks.


Trying to use that logic for the Phantom, but maybe that doesn't apply at the moment, since maybe Devialet has done all the hardware improvements they wanted to, already, and applied that to the Phantom...

There have been 2 hardware changes since the D-Premier (if you don't count the supply of wireless modules which were planned in but not ready at first and supplied FOC to early buyers). The first was to the 250 which IMHO was an update or side-grade rather than upgrade. Fundamentally it had more DSP power to allow SAM (which they thought of and developed as part of the Phantom programme). At the same time the power supply was changed a bit, HDMI and infra red remote control were dropped, the optical inputs were downgraded from 192/24 to 96/24 but both USB and Ethernet connections were added.

The second was to bring out lower priced models with very much less expensive to make simpler enclosures, 200 and 120.

Technically the performance is good enough to be completely transparent as long as they can drive the speakers they are connected to IMHO. I have heard 2 instances of them not working very well into Martin Logan hybrids, but others love the combination.