First impressions

[Dvlt PhD]

When Devialet released their most expensive Expert line, did they make hardware improvements on that release later on? Or does the most expensive current amp still has the same hardware, as when it was released a few years ago? If they did make hardware changes, how many years after the release?


Thanks.


Trying to use that logic for the Phantom, but maybe that doesn't apply at the moment, since maybe Devialet has done all the hardware improvements they wanted to, already, and applied that to the Phantom...

There have been 2 hardware changes since the D-Premier (if you don't count the supply of wireless modules which were planned in but not ready at first and supplied FOC to early buyers). The first was to the 250 which IMHO was an update or side-grade rather than upgrade. Fundamentally it had more DSP power to allow SAM (which they thought of and developed as part of the Phantom programme). At the same time the power supply was changed a bit, HDMI and infra red remote control were dropped, the optical inputs were downgraded from 192/24 to 96/24 but both USB and Ethernet connections were added.

The second was to bring out lower priced models with very much less expensive to make simpler enclosures, 200 and 120.

Technically the performance is good enough to be completely transparent as long as they can drive the speakers they are connected to IMHO. I have heard 2 instances of them not working very well into Martin Logan hybrids, but others love the combination.

Thanks, f1eng!

I think it's safe to say that's good news for the Phantom. Keeping in mind that the Phantom came out a long time after, so they had the experience with their Expert line to back it up.


What about the DAC and Processor of the Phantom?...Do you think the current specs was a good move? Do you think there could've been other inputs/outputs, and if so, could they just make the  inputs/outputs update to the Dialog instead of the Phantom?


Thanks.

[hk6230]

Actually optical still can support 24/192. It works on my D200.


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[f1eng]

Actually optical still can support 24/192. It works on my D200.


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I think you are just lucky then. They are rated at 24/96 and some may work above spec.

When my first D-Premier came back updated to 240 specification, as was then, it would no longer play 24/192 files from my A&K portable. I did a bug report, the first response to which was puzzlement but a few days later I got an apologetic reply saying they had indeed downgraded the optical inputs.
They offered to make sure my second D-Premier, which was at that time in the workshop for update, would work with 24/192, and it does, so I have this one as my master now.
They did not say whether one of the higher spec D-Premier inputs had been fitted or if they had hand selected one of the new ones which happened to work above its rated spec.

[ragwo]

I have the dreaded hissing noise while playing on low volumes (<10-15). It's clearly audible 4 meters away, starting when hitting play and stopping a couple of seconds after pausing. All sources are affected. I've contacted my local reseller and they confirm that they have the same problem. They will contact Devialet and so have I. Has anyone got any response from Devialet on this issue? How common is the hissing problem? The firmware on the Phantoms and the Dialog is 1.2.0.0. I believe the speakers are the latest revision with bluetooth connectivity.

[hk6230]

Actually optical still can support 24/192. It works on my D200.


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I think you are just lucky then. They are rated at 24/96 and some may work above spec.

When my first D-Premier came back updated to 240 specification, as was then, it would no longer play 24/192 files from my A&K portable. I did a bug report, the first response to which was puzzlement but a few days later I got an apologetic reply saying they had indeed downgraded the optical inputs.
They offered to make sure my second D-Premier, which was at that time in the workshop for update, would work with 24/192, and it does, so I have this one as my master now.
They did not say whether one of the higher spec D-Premier inputs had been fitted or if they had hand selected one of the new ones which happened to work above its rated spec.

You may be right that I could be lucky. But, honestly, I was being told by Devialet support that my D200 should only able to support up to 24/96 bitrates when I was hooking up my Bluesound Node to my D200 in early Mar this year, trying to play 24/192 music to it, and got an orange indication on D200's display window, indicating error on processing signal. I actually had given up hope and bought an optical-to-coax converter to get 24/192 music into D200.

Somehow, by accident, one fine day I connect the optical link to my D200 toslink input and out came 24/192 music. I was surprised, too. Initially, I managed only to get this 24/192 bitrates playback on one particular toslink cable only. So, I thought, maybe this cable is "special". Then, I tried others again, having need to twist and turn and adjusting the toslink cable to ensure proper light transfer, and found all toslink cables work.

So, I would recommend you (or anyone who is curious) to give it a try again. I believe our Expert line do support 24/192 toslink input after all.

I can't be the only one that is lucky or special.

P.S. My apology for 'kidnaping' this thread. I will take this discussion elsewhere.

[stonedragon]

I have the dreaded hissing noise while playing on low volumes (<10-15). It's clearly audible 4 meters away, starting when hitting play and stopping a couple of seconds after pausing. All sources are affected. I've contacted my local reseller and they confirm that they have the same problem. They will contact Devialet and so have I. Has anyone got any response from Devialet on this issue? How common is the hissing problem? The firmware on the Phantoms and the Dialog is 1.2.0.0. I believe the speakers are the latest revision with bluetooth connectivity.

I'm a first gen Phantomer. No hissing whatsoever. From 0-100. Nothing.Nada.

[Divasson]

Just heard a phantom today (single silver unit). You can see by my signature what I'm using: the stradas are quite small and are located on the floor, in the near field, used with a subwoofer. The stradas have not been SAM'ed yet.

IMHO there is no possible comparison - Devialet + proper speakers is so much better! The 3D image from a properly set pair of loudspeakers with Devialet electronics cannot be matched (hearing things on top of you and in some cases, behind you) according to the shop owner. That I wasn't able to compare, since I listened to a single unit; but the shop owner confirmed to me that, while better than a single unit, still cannot compare with the expert + loudspeaker line.

It sounded to me as a machine, not the real thing: mechanical, plasticky.

It may well be the best sound center there is (and I may still buy it - I was really impressed by its lows, convenience and WAF), but it is not a replacement if you're after "the absolute sound". I can't fool myself that there is a piano there, or a real violin.

Now, let's realize how many hours are we able to sit in the sweet spot, and how much more casual listening are we able to get on a normal day off the sweet spot (and even out of the main listening room) - that may also be a decision factor.

[f1eng]

Just heard a phantom today (single silver unit). You can see by my signature what I'm using: the stradas are quite small and are located on the floor, in the near field, used with a subwoofer. The stradas have not been SAM'ed yet.

IMHO there is no possible comparison - Devialet + proper speakers is so much better! The 3D image from a properly set pair of loudspeakers with Devialet electronics cannot be matched (hearing things on top of you and in some cases, behind you) according to the shop owner. That I wasn't able to compare, since I listened to a single unit; but the shop owner confirmed to me that, while better than a single unit, still cannot compare with the expert + loudspeaker line.

It sounded to me as a machine, not the real thing: mechanical, plasticky.

It may well be the best sound center there is (and I may still buy it - I was really impressed by its lows, convenience and WAF), but it is not a replacement if you're after "the absolute sound". I can't fool myself that there is a piano there, or a real violin.

Now, let's realize how many hours are we able to sit in the sweet spot, and how much more casual listening are we able to get on a normal day off the sweet spot (and even out of the main listening room) - that may also be a decision factor.

Nothing you write here is consistent with the experience of my 4 months ownership of Phantoms.

Certainly they will have a more accurate stereo image than any box speaker since they replicate a point source, but whether an accurate stereo is what a particular individual wants is not always the case.
Panel speakers (I had Apogee Divas for 8 years) and omnidirectionals give a bigger impression of stereo by bouncing sound around the listening room, but it is an impression only and bears scant resemblance to what is on the recording ambience and stereo wise.

I bought the Apogees because of the amazing stereo image, but it was only impressive on recordings I had not made myself, on my own recordings the contrived addition of my room acoustics to the recording was one of the reasons I eventually moved on.

Anyway, if you dislike them that much my advice is to not buy them, or at least not without a home demo.

[Mr_Bill]

Just heard a phantom today (single silver unit). You can see by my signature what I'm using: the stradas are quite small and are located on the floor, in the near field, used with a subwoofer. The stradas have not been SAM'ed yet.

IMHO there is no possible comparison - Devialet + proper speakers is so much better! The 3D image from a properly set pair of loudspeakers with Devialet electronics cannot be matched (hearing things on top of you and in some cases, behind you) according to the shop owner. That I wasn't able to compare, since I listened to a single unit; but the shop owner confirmed to me that, while better than a single unit, still cannot compare with the expert + loudspeaker line.

It sounded to me as a machine, not the real thing: mechanical, plasticky.

It may well be the best sound center there is (and I may still buy it - I was really impressed by its lows, convenience and WAF), but it is not a replacement if you're after "the absolute sound". I can't fool myself that there is a piano there, or a real violin.

Now, let's realize how many hours are we able to sit in the sweet spot, and how much more casual listening are we able to get on a normal day off the sweet spot (and even out of the main listening room) - that may also be a decision factor.

Nothing you write here is consistent with the experience of my 4 months ownership of Phantoms.

Certainly they will have a more accurate stereo image than any box speaker since they replicate a point source, but whether an accurate stereo is what a particular individual wants is not always the case.
Panel speakers (I had Apogee Divas for 8 years) and omnidirectionals give a bigger impression of stereo by bouncing sound around the listening room, but it is an impression only and bears scant resemblance to what is on the recording ambience and stereo wise.

I bought the Apogees because of the amazing stereo image, but it was only impressive on recordings I had not made myself, on my own recordings the contrived addition of my room acoustics to the recording was one of the reasons I eventually moved on.

Anyway, if you dislike them that much my advice is to not buy them, or at least not without a home demo.

Interesting differing opinions, but I side with the owners and to those that are making their judgements based on one speaker - unhook one of your speakers at home and see how crappy that sounds.

[Divasson]

Two comments:

1) of course 20' listening cannot beat 4 months of ownership (and tweaking and finding the right spot and acoustics). So I am happy to stand corrected on that count. However, the shop owner (who doesn't have to sell an Expert to me, because he already did! Instead, he might want to sell a phantom) thinks just the same as I did.

2) The fact that I did not feel Phantom to be as good as the Expert line doesn't mean that I found it bad for what it is; and that in my situation and current lifestyle, it would make a much better fit for 95% of the time. So it is still very high in my buying list! They are goods for different purposes.